Whats the call

[justcallmeblue]

situation. . .ASA Mens SP

R1 and 3rd, R2 at 1st. . . . 1B playing behind the bag and just over R2's right shoulder

Lefty batter, laces a line drive (i mean this play was bang bang). . . .. . . .R1 takes off for home

R2 takes the linedrive (in air) right off his shoulder after trying to get out of the way. . .all the time R2 IS in contact with the bag. Ball ricochets off his shoulder, over the Right field fence and out of play. At the time the ball hit the runner, ball was fair

I know that R1 is not out - 8.8.M (contrary to the defensive teams plea's and arguements)

However, here comes the question on what to do next.

I decided to put the BR on 1st, R2 on 2nd and scored R1 from 3rd.

After the game, i thought, what if the ball richoched off the bag and out of bounds, that would be a dead ball, GRD. . .so I think that BR on 2B and R2 on 3rd (scoring R1) would be the correct call.

Thoughts?

Is there anything in the rules about a ball hitting a player, not touched by a defensive player and going out of play??

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

situation. . .ASA Mens SP

R1 and 3rd, R2 at 1st. . . . 1B playing behind the bag and just over R2's right shoulder

Lefty batter, laces a line drive (i mean this play was bang bang). . . .. . . .R1 takes off for home

R2 takes the linedrive (in air) right off his shoulder after trying to get out of the way. . .all the time R2 IS in contact with the bag. Ball ricochets off his shoulder, over the Right field fence and out of play. At the time the ball hit the runner, ball was fair

I know that R1 is not out - 8.8.M (contrary to the defensive teams plea's and arguements)

However, here comes the question on what to do next.

I decided to put the BR on 1st, R2 on 2nd and scored R1 from 3rd.

Well, scoring R1 was wrong.

After the game, i thought, what if the ball richoched off the bag and out of bounds, that would be a dead ball, GRD. . .so I think that BR on 2B and R2 on 3rd (scoring R1) would be the correct call.

Thoughts?

Yeah, what is "out of bounds"? This isn't football or basketball.

Yes, a fair batted ball which leaves the field of play is a GRD. The BR and all runners are advanced two bases from the TOP.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, scoring R1 was wrong.



Yeah, what is "out of bounds"? This isn't football or basketball.

Yes, a fair batted ball which leaves the field of play is a GRD. The BR and all runners are advanced two bases from the TOP.

Um... Wouldn't scoring R1 be correct? I think you meant R2.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

situation. . .ASA Mens SP

R1 and 3rd, R2 at 1st. . . . 1B playing behind the bag and just over R2's right shoulder

Lefty batter, laces a line drive (i mean this play was bang bang). . . .. . . .R1 takes off for home

R2 takes the linedrive (in air) right off his shoulder after trying to get out of the way. . .all the time R2 IS in contact with the bag. Ball ricochets off his shoulder, over the Right field fence and out of play. At the time the ball hit the runner, ball was fair

I know that R1 is not out - 8.8.M (contrary to the defensive teams plea's and arguements)

However, here comes the question on what to do next.

I decided to put the BR on 1st, R2 on 2nd and scored R1 from 3rd.

Why on earth would they think R1 is out?

Tell em to dream on.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Um... Wouldn't scoring R1 be correct? I think you meant R2.

they only advance if forced on this play.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

they only advance if forced on this play.

Right, so B3 is now on 2B, R2 is on 3B, and R1 is...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Um... Wouldn't scoring R1 be correct? I think you meant R2.

No, the ball is dead. R1 has no right to advance on this play.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, the ball is dead. R1 has no right to advance on this play.

We've got 2 runners at the beginning of this sitch: R1 on 3B and R2 on 1B. Where would you put R1 if you rule a GRD?

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

We've got 2 runners at the beginning of this sitch: R1 on 3B and R2 on 1B. Where would you put R1 if you rule a GRD?

I think I would have him crossing HP and chalking up 1 run for the offensive team.

[wadeintothem]

Hello .. mcfly!

The balls dead. Its not GRD. You dont get to choose GRD on this play.

A space ship could steal that ball and the runner still doesnt get to score.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Right, so B3 is now on 2B, R2 is on 3B, and R1 is...

no.. br goes 1b, R2 goes 2b, and r1 can stand there picking his nose and scratching himself. He goes no where.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Hello .. mcfly!

The balls dead. Its not GRD. You dont get to choose GRD on this play.

A space ship could steal that ball and the runner still doesnt get to score.

Okay, let's start seeing some rule citations here...

I have no outs here because: 8-8-M - R2 was on the base, and it sounds like he didn't interfere intentionally.

The problem becomes 8-5-I (the GRD rule), whereby:

When a fair batted ball bounces over, rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. When the ball deflects off a defensive player and goes out of play in foul ball territory, deflects off a runner or umpire and goes out of play into foul ball territory, after having passed an infielder excluding the pitcher and provided no other infielder had a chance to make an out.

Now, it sounds like F3 had an opportunity to catch the ball in flight. However, I'm going to have to go back on my word and state that ASA, from what I've found, has nothing in the book to cover this specific play. If F3 had been in front of the base (assuming F4 was by 2B), that'd be one thing. However, this doesn't seem to be covered.

I'm not calling an out on R2. However, do you give all runners 2 bases? Or do you do something different? Advance BR to 1B, force R2 to 2B, leave R1 on 3B and call it even?

[wadeintothem]

Oh yea?

OK.. I'm at work so no rule cite in retort.. but when i get home youre gonna get a rule cite and and almost this exact play is in the 08 Case book. 8-8 isnt the one I dont believe..there is another one. I think in the 7's somewheres.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Oh yea?

OK.. I'm at work so no rule cite in retort.. but when i get home youre gonna get a rule cite and and almost this exact play is in the 08 Case book. 8-8 isnt the one I dont believe..there is another one. I think in the 7's somewheres.

Can't be in the 8-7s... Those are "Runner is Out." Unless there's an exception there. 8-8 is "Runner is not out."

I did a search earlier for "deflect," and it only pulled up 8-8-M and RS 26, but neither of them go into a ball that hits a runner on base that hasn't passed a fielder.

[greymule]

This is not so complicated. A fair batted ball hit a runner who was in contact with a base and did not interfere intentionally. The nearest fielder was playing behind the runner. (Whether the fielder had an opportunity to make an out is irrelevant.) Therefore, the ball is immediately dead. The batter gets 1B, and other runners return TOI unless forced.

This is ASA only. NSA's rule covering runners hit while in contact with a base is different. In Babe Ruth softball—which follows OBR—the base is not a sanctuary; the runner is out unless the ball passed a fielder and no other fielder had a chance to make a play. I don't know about Fed softball; it probably follows ASA.