Here's an interesting one...

[Andy]

Talking with my partner in between games last night, this situation came up...

ASA rules. Team A playing shorthanded due to injury. R1 on third, 1 out, x-2 count, missing spot in batting order due up next.

B2 swings and misses for strike three and out #2, R1 sucessfully steals home on the pitch. Does the run count?

The question becomes: When is the out for the missing spot in the batting order considered to take place? Does it happen immediately at the time of the second out? Or does it happen after all play is complete and the missing batter should enter the box?

Personally - I count the run, then declare the missing spot in the order out for out #3. However, I can't find any clear definition in the rulebook

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Talking with my partner in between games last night, this situation came up...

ASA rules. Team A playing shorthanded due to injury. R1 on third, 1 out, x-2 count, missing spot in batting order due up next.

B2 swings and misses for strike three and out #2, R1 sucessfully steals home on the pitch. Does the run count?

The question becomes: When is the out for the missing spot in the batting order considered to take place? Does it happen immediately at the time of the second out? Or does it happen after all play is complete and the missing batter should enter the box?

Personally - I count the run, then declare the missing spot in the order out for out #3. However, I can't find any clear definition in the rulebook

I agree. As long as it was on the pitch, it was part of the "play" which included out #2. Once the ball is returned to the pitcher (FP-in circle), now we are ready for the next batter and out declared.

When playing shorthanded, some not-too-smart coaches think that since the inning is going to end, they should just keep the runners moving until they are put out. The "not-too-smart" part comes into the fact that when one of the runners is retired, their team just committed to a two-out inning for their next at bat.

JMHO

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I agree. As long as it was on the pitch, it was part of the "play" which included out #2. Once the ball is returned to the pitcher (FP-in circle), now we are ready for the next batter and out declared.

So, a run scored on a delayed steal would not count?

[SRW]

That's a good one... and similiar to one I had to handle in our Metros two weeks back...

Our scenario: Last game of the night under lights, team playing shorthanded due to prom. They have 1 out already. B8 hits a triple. When all playing action stopped, the PU suspended the game because there was only 5 minutes or so left on the field lights.

The next day the game resumed, and the team has about 5 more eligible rostered players available. The question posed: Did the automatic out happen in B9's spot the night before, or can the coach put a player in B9's spot now and not take the out.

Basically, do we have:
1 out, R8 on 3B, Sub in B9 and B9 bats.
or
2 out, R8 on 3B, B1 bats.

Our Metro UIC ruled that the out happened last night, and the situation was now 2 outs, R8 on 3B, B1 comes to bat. His theory was this: just like a new inning begins immediately after the 3rd out is made in the previous inning, the automatic out happens immediately after the batter completes her at-bat and playing action had stopped... whether the PU declared the out or not.

So in your situation, I would think that playing action had not yet stopped... and I'd let the run count.

[tmielke]

Wouldn't the out occur when the injured player failed to take position in the batter's box?

What about this situation. No legal subs. Player takes chunk out of her knee with a bad slide into second. Says she can't continue. Play continues with eight and she misses her at bat. Next time her spot in the line-up comes up, she is re-entered and is able to bat. Do you call that third out prior to giving the offense the opportunity to re-enter the player. I know that this wouldn't be a problem in FED how about ASA?

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by Dakota

So, a run scored on a delayed steal would not count?

Great situation

ASA 4.D.1.c & 4.D.2.e both speak to the out being when the batter is scheduled to bat.

The light out situation I agree there should be 2 outs, and why not try to get the third out? take a pitch or two, then there can not be a situation like what happened. At the very least the ump needs to mark both books with the second out.

As for the delayed steal. I would say the run is good. Since the runner stole before the open spot was scheduled to bat. As soon as the pitcher has the ball and the runner returns to the base is the play over and the open spot is scheduled to bat.

A side note, the catcher should have just asked for time. The second it is given inning over.

[snorman75]

Originally Posted by tmielke

Wouldn't the out occur when the injured player failed to take position in the batter's box?

What about this situation. No legal subs. Player takes chunk out of her knee with a bad slide into second. Says she can't continue. Play continues with eight and she misses her at bat. Next time her spot in the line-up comes up, she is re-entered and is able to bat. Do you call that third out prior to giving the offense the opportunity to re-enter the player. I know that this wouldn't be a problem in FED how about ASA?

ASA well yes and no.

She can not return is she was removed for any reason other then blood.
4.D.2.g and 4.D.2 exception

The first thing I would ask the coach is she hurt or bleeding when he took her out. If there was no blood she can not return.