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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 06:46am
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Broken Wrist
R1 is attempting to steal 2nd base. F2 fires a bullit to F6 covering 2B.

F6 makes a clean catch and puts the glove in front of the base as R1 slides into it.

After the dust settles, F6 still has the ball in her glove, but the EMTs are called because F6 injured her wrist. When the EMT arrives, he gingerly removes the glove and the ball falls out.

If you depend on a voluntary release to determine this call........


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 08:44am
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Because of "informed consent" laws, F6 had to have consented to her treatment by the EMTs. If she was unable to give actual consent, her consent would have been implied by operation of law.

Since she consented to their acts, their release of the ball from her glove was voluntary on her part, and R1 is out.

Why yes, I am a lawyer, why do you ask?
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 10:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pob14
Because of "informed consent" laws, F6 had to have consented to her treatment by the EMTs. If she was unable to give actual consent, her consent would have been implied by operation of law.

Since she consented to their acts, their release of the ball from her glove was voluntary on her part, and R1 is out.

Why yes, I am a lawyer, why do you ask?
A lawyer AND an umpire? Oh dear god...
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 10:09am
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I agree with pob14, as an EMT when I asked if she wanted me to help her screaming would be an implied concent and then I have control of the ball from that point


I also think we have one other point in a tag play,other action following the play. Once the control is seen for the umpire to judge the out then submental action can make the ball come out and it is still an out, this is probably Irish's point with this post I am guessing. Maybe there are some that would not call someone out if they touch first with the ball prior to the BR getting there then step toward home and drop the ball when the BR and F3 collide, but I am claiming there was control to get the out and the loss of control after the out when F3 was making another play.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 10:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
A lawyer AND an umpire? Oh dear god...
Not only "dear god":
If one is lawyer and umpire, he's the Devil and God unified in one person! Have mercy on us all....
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Ik ben niet gek, doe alleen alsof! Gaat me goed af toch?
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 10, 2008, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Alex
Not only "dear god":
If one is lawyer and umpire, he's the Devil and God unified in one person! Have mercy on us all....
And I'm sure you mean the umpire is the "God" part, right?
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Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 11:51am
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Realizing you are posting keyboard-in-cheek, wouldn't the voluntary release requirement for the out end when you called time, which I assume you did before allowing EMT's on the field?

Hope that F6 got a big standing O for her guts. How old were they?
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 11:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMatt
Realizing you are posting keyboard-in-cheek, wouldn't the voluntary release requirement for the out end when you called time, which I assume you did before allowing EMT's on the field?

Hope that F6 got a big standing O for her guts. How old were they?
The point is that a voluntary release is NOT a requirement.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 12:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMatt
Realizing you are posting keyboard-in-cheek...
That sounds awkward!
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 12:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
That sounds awkward!
Taste a little strange, too.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 01:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Taste a little strange, too.
How about with the aforementioned vinegar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
:
Originally Posted by NCASAUmp
Ahem... I'm actually a cheesehead transplant.

But it didn't take me long to develop a taste for bbq (pulled pork) with the vinegar sauce (AKA - Eastern Carolina BBQ), sweet tea and Bojangle's fried chicken.

Bojangle's chicken sucks. Vinegar on BBQ isn't my favorite, but can deal with it when it is done lightly. You can keep the heavy-vinegared shredded stuff..
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Last edited by CecilOne; Thu Jun 12, 2008 at 03:03pm.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2008, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
That sounds awkward!
Not with some of the mouths I've see & heard on a field.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 13, 2008, 02:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
The point is that a voluntary release is NOT a requirement.
I thought the recent discussions of "voluntary release" were referring to a way to determine whether a tag was made "with a ball not securely held by a fielder."
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 13, 2008, 02:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamMatt
I thought the recent discussions of "voluntary release" were referring to a way to determine whether a tag was made "with a ball not securely held by a fielder."
I will say it again, there is no such requirement. It can be used as a determining factor or guideline by the umpire, but it is not required.
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