Help with a Sitch..

[jmaellis]

R1 @ 3B;
BR is walked;
As BR jogs to 1B, R1 steps off 3B a few feet;
Ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle;
Without stopping, BR rounds 1B and jogs to 2B;
R1 just stands there, a few feet off 3B;
F1 doesn't do anything .. just stands there in the circle;
BR rounds 2B and starts to jog toward 3B;
F1 still just stands there and watches;
R1 hasn't moved an inch;
BR stops just short of 3B, looks at F1, and realizing F1 isn't going to fall for it, starts to jog back to 2B;
R1 remains just where she is, still a few feet off of 3B;
BR gets to 2B and stops;
R1 then returns to 3B with a couple of seconds.

Everything is okay in this situation .. right? No LBR violation by R1 because the ball is live as long as the BR was in motion around the bases, during the brief time she is stopped between 2B and 3B and while she is returning to 2B. Once BR is stopped at 2B, R1 must quickly make up her mind what she is going to do. In this case she returned to 3B, but she could have also gone home.

I'm umpiring my first post rec. league tourney this weekend and I'm trying to think of situations that might occur and come to the proper rulings.

[Dakota]

Speaking ASA, once the BR reached 1B and F1 had the ball in the circle, the LBR is in effect. BR continuing to run has no effect on R1. If R1 just stands there while F1 has the ball and is not making a play, R1 is out. The ball would be dead, and the BR returned to the last base reached.

[wadeintothem]

BR rounds 1B towards 2B in this sitch as described

Wade looks at R1 "girl you better do something"

thats about how long she gets then DB/R1 Out is on the way.

This is a very common LBR out by the way...I get a few every year this way.

[jmaellis]

Yes, ASA.

Glad I asked .

Does R1's time begin as soon as F1 has the ball in the circle or does she get at least until the BR reaches 1st?

[Skahtboi]

Once BR attains first.

By the way, this is not just ASA but all codes of which I am aware.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

Yes, ASA.

Glad I asked .

Does R1's time begin as soon as F1 has the ball in the circle or does she get at least until the BR reaches 1st?

Both have to happen, so whichever happens last starts the "one-one-thousand..." on R1.

[DaveASA/FED]

I agree with everything posted. BUT I have a question on a hit ball. I was thinking that the LBR "waiting" to start till BR obtains first was just on a walk, I am probably wrong....so I ask does the LBR wait for BR to obtain first in all conditions or just on a walk?

[robbie]

Wade and Dakota indicated DB.
Is this correct for ASA?
It is NOT for NSA.
I simply have "runner out at 3" and then turn attention to other runner as it is still live.

[DaveASA/FED]

In ASA and FED a runner leaving early or a LBR violation as this is described is a DEAD BALL situation only 1 runner can be out for either of these, and all other runner have to go back to last base leagally obtained.

[BretMan]

As a freshly certified NSA umpire, this one intrigued me.

The NSA rule book makes no mention of a dead ball being called when there is a Look Back violation- at least, no mention anywhere in the actual rule (8-8-X) or under the rule that describes dead ball situations (9-1-a thru v).

If the status of the ball (live/dead) is mentioned anywhere in the NSA rule book, with respect to a Look Back violation, I cannot find it. Going strictly by that, you would have to assume that the ball remains live.

But, wait...there's more!

There is an NSA case book available on-line at their website. And the case book plays are quite clear. Anytime there is a Look Back violation, the case plays all state that...THE BALL IS DEAD!

That makes sense for a couple of reasons.

First, it is in-line with every other rule set (ASA, FED, etc.).

Secondly, it takes away the possibility that the offense can benefit from an illegal act. Suppose the runner standing off the bag (ie: violating the LBR) is from third base. If the defense plays on her, the other runner trots into second base unchallenged. She has, in effect, gained an extra base because her teammate has violated a rule.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by BretMan

As a freshly certified NSA umpire, this one intrigued me.

The NSA rule book makes no mention of a dead ball being called when there is a Look Back violation- at least, no mention anywhere in the actual rule (8-8-X) or under the rule that describes dead ball situations (9-1-a thru v).

If the status of the ball (live/dead) is mentioned anywhere in the NSA rule book. with respect to a Look Back violation, I cannot find it. Going strictly by that, you would have to assume that the ball remains live.

But, wait...there's more!

There is an NSA case book available on-line at their website. And the case book plays are quite clear. Anytime there is a Look Back violation, the case plays all state that...THE BALL IS DEAD!

.. .and thus ending your dilemma? ..

[BretMan]

Yep. Two seperate case plays that say the ball is dead is good enough for me!

[CecilOne]

In the OP, this is all that matters:

R1 @ 3B;
BR is walked;
As BR jogs to 1B, R1 steps off 3B a few feet;
Ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle;
Without stopping, BR rounds 1B and jogs to 2B;
R1 just stands there, a few feet off 3B;

[CecilOne]

There almost had to be a hijack, so here it is.
There are some "outs by rule" that do not require action by the defense and are not dead ball situations. Those I can think of right away are
- infield fly rule
- removing helmet while running
- passing another runner (w/o OBS)
What else?

[shipwreck]

How about physically assisting a runner? Dave