What's the call?

[GDW]

I was watching a game last week. BR hits ball to the fence. Catcher (appropriately) positions herself slightly in front of home plate and just inside the 3rd base line.

As BR comes in home, catcher is carried backwards into base line to catch a high throw and couldn't see runner. Runner was so close and the play so fast that they crashed.

Catcher drops ball and runner goes down injured. PU counted run but I'm not sure exactly what his call was.

What is the correct call here?

[SRW]

What ruleset?

[GDW]

ASA. 12-under Rec.

[charliej47]

Trainwreck

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Trainwreck

Meaning "nothing happened." Run counts.

[GDW]

Based on what rule interpretation? I'm not questioning your response, I just want know exactly in case I'm behind the plate when it happens again.

Thanks.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by charliej47

Trainwreck

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that there is no such thing as a trainwreck any more in ASA ball. The only exception is the bunted ball in front of the plate and the RH batter and F2 collide as they are both doing what they are expected to do.

It's either obstruction or interference...so my question would be - did the catcher have the ball at the time of the collision?

[SRW]

HTBT. Probably OBS. If the 12U BR can hit to the fence, I'm more than likely gonna give her HP, not send her back to 3B.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by Andy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that there is no such thing as a trainwreck any more in ASA ball. The only exception is the bunted ball in front of the plate and the RH batter and F2 collide as they are both doing what they are expected to do.

It's either obstruction or interference...so my question would be - did the catcher have the ball at the time of the collision?

ASA rules supplement 13 F and G talk about this. Yes the wreck is still alive.

Paragraph F: When a defensive player is fielding a thrown ball and the flight of the ball carries or draws them into the path of the base runner, it is not a crash.

Paragraph G: When the ball, runner, and defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should no invoke crash rule, interference or obstruction It is a incidental contact (a.k.a. wreck)

EDIT: I posted this at same time as SRW so it is doubled up

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Andy

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that there is no such thing as a trainwreck any more in ASA ball. The only exception is the bunted ball in front of the plate and the RH batter and F2 collide as they are both doing what they are expected to do.

It's either obstruction or interference...so my question would be - did the catcher have the ball at the time of the collision?

R/S 13-F:

When a defensive player is fielding a thrown ball and the flight of the ball carries or draws them into the path of the base runner, it is not a crash.

R/S 13-G

When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or
what some persons commonly call, “a wreck.”

Hence my HTBT decision.

[GDW]

I was thinking interference here. I didn't think OBS because the catcher was playing a thrown ball that arrived at the same time as the player. Is it not the runner's responsibility to avoid the defensive player in the process of fielding a batted or thrown ball?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Paragraph G: When the ball, runner, and defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should no invoke crash rule, interference or obstruction It is a incidental contact (a.k.a. wreck)

Which I believe is very poor and antiquated advice that contradicts the rules. The situations cited are all HTBT judgment calls and no blanket statement should be made concerning the enforcement.

With the exception of the BR/C collision path, the rules and equipment have been manipulated to make insure the runner and defender are never in the same place at the same time.

How often is this the result of poor defensive play? So, when F3 lunges off 1B for a wide throw and knocks the BR to the ground as the ball goes flying by, the umpire should rule a "train wreck" and the runner out, if tagged.

Of course, this is JMO.

[charliej47]

Irish,

I have had F3 and F5 lunge off the base on a bad throw and I have always called OBS. I might not have read the post closely, but I agree with you on it is a HTBT call. Base on what I read, i am giving input on opinions and mine is "trainwreck".

[MGKBLUE]

Agreed HTBT.

However, I look at this situation as a three step approach and it all depends on the location of the ball.

1. The fielder is drawn into the path of the runner and when contact is made the fielder does not have possession of the ball. Obstruction. RS 13 F unlike 13 G does not indicate that obstruction should not be called, only do not call a crash and the runner out as a result.

2. When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or
what some persons commonly call, “a wreck.”

3. The fielder has possession of the ball and is waiting to apply the tag when the runner crashes into the fielder. Interference and the runner is out.

[GDW]

Originally Posted by MGKBLUE

Agreed HTBT.

However, I look at this situation as a three step approach and it all depends on the location of the ball.

1. The fielder is drawn into the path of the runner and when contact is made the fielder does not have possession of the ball. Obstruction. RS 13 F unlike 13 G does not indicate that obstruction should not be called, only do not call a crash and the runner out as a result.

2. When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or
what some persons commonly call, “a wreck.”

3. The fielder has possession of the ball and is waiting to apply the tag when the runner crashes into the fielder. Interference and the runner is out.

In the case I submitted, the ball, defensive player and runner all arrived at the same time. Ball made it into F2's glove but was knocked loose in collision. Runner never made it to HP because she went downt injured. Run was awarded to offense.

I'm a newby, so I really want to get a good understanding of the right call here. Thanks.