Passed Base runner question

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by TwoDot

I had a strange event happen in LL majors game last night that I would like to find out the correct ruling.
With Runners on 2nd and 3rd, a past ball caused runners to try to advance. R3 got half way home, catcher ran her back to 3rd where R2 was standing on the base. R3 touches 3rd and then runs past the bag into the outfield. R2 then runs back to second, catcher throws to second base where R2 was tagged. R3 then runs home and scores.
The umpire (1st game ever) did not know what call to make R coach only wanted R2 to be out, run scoring. I did not think that was correct and we settled on R3 being out, and put R2 on third.
Somewhat unusual play that could only happen at this level, but I would like to know particulars as to what the correct ruling would be.

I'll continue to use your runner designations - but those are a different games' designations for the runners. Now, when did R2 pass R3 - I don't see that here. If anything, I have a live ball with R3 being out for going more than 3 feet out of her base path to avoid a tag and I think you've still got R2 on 2B.

[NCASAUmp]

From the sounds of the original post, it sounded like R2 was still standing on 3B when R1 (or R3, as mentioned) had run past 3B. In that case, R2 had advanced beyond the runner who originally occupied 3B.

[greymule]

This has been a point of contention on previous threads, but unless one runner passes the other on the basepaths, I don't have a violation. To me, merely running past 3B down the LF line after returning (with another runner on 3B) doesn't create a passed-runner situation.

To stretch the point a bit: Abel on 1B. Baker hits a shot that F3 traps 15 feet from 1B toward 2B. Seeing F3 with the ball and wanting to avoid the easy double play by delaying the tag, Abel retreats to 1B. Baker then overruns 1B down the RF line. Unless Baker actually moves toward 2B, he has not passed Abel.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

This has been a point of contention on previous threads, but unless one runner passes the other on the basepaths, I don't have a violation. To me, merely running past 3B down the LF line after returning (with another runner on 3B) doesn't create a passed-runner situation.

To stretch the point a bit: Abel on 1B. Baker hits a shot that F3 traps 15 feet from 1B toward 2B. Seeing F3 with the ball and wanting to avoid the easy double play by delaying the tag, Abel retreats to 1B. Baker then overruns 1B down the RF line. Unless Baker actually moves toward 2B, he has not passed Abel.

I can't see how this analogy would cleanly apply, though. You're referring to a base that can legally be overrun without putting the runner in jeopardy (unless they attempt to advance). 1B and HP are unique in this regards. What we're discussing, however, is a base where an overrun places the runner in jeopardy. The runners have fewer options in this sitch.

If R2 is standing on 3B, and R1 reverses his direction and overruns 3B (going towards the outfield), then I would interpret that as R1 being passed by R2. R1 is now behind 3B, and R2 is standing on top of it.

[greymule]

I can't see how this analogy would cleanly apply, though.

I agree that it's not exactly parallel. (That's why I said I was "stretching" the point.)

I also understand the reasoning that a runner who has retreated past 3B up the LF line has caused the following runner on 3B to "pass" him. But absent a case play, I'd still go the other way on that one. As I remember, OBR (for example) requires that the passing be "on the basepaths."

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by greymule

I can't see how this analogy would cleanly apply, though.

I agree that it's not exactly parallel. (That's why I said I was "stretching" the point.)

I also understand the reasoning that a runner who has retreated past 3B up the LF line has caused the following runner on 3B to "pass" him. But absent a case play, I'd still go the other way on that one. As I remember, OBR (for example) requires that the passing be "on the basepaths."

And in ASA, the "basepath" is so loosely defined that the basepath can be anywhere.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

And in ASA, the "basepath" is so loosely defined that the basepath can be anywhere.

Not at all. The term is very precisely defined:

Rule 1 - BASE PATH: A line directly between a base and the runner’s position at the time a defensive player is attempting to tag that runner.