D3K Interpretation

[FullCount]

Have been around fastpitch for many years as a dad, coach, and pitching instructor but now a new umpire. Would appreciate clarification and thoughts on D3K:

ASA ruleset, Rule 8.1.b.1 states:

"Fewer than two outs and first base is not occupied at the time of the pitch, or"

For purposes of this rule, how is "occupied" defined? This past week, my partner, the senior umpire in the game who says he has seventeen years umpiring experience, told a coach that if a runner on 1b broke for 2b on a steal that 1B was no longer occupied and that the BR could attempt to advance on D3K. This was the first I had heard of that interpretation so I reread the rule after the game and don't see how that can be. It says "occupied at the time of the pitch" and the runner cannot attempt a steal until the pitch, so I interpret the rule to say the base was occupied even on an attempted steal. Please help me understand this one better.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Some umpires with 17 years experience are experiencing their first year for the 17th time. Seniority means survival, not neccessarily knowledge.

At the time of the pitch means the base was occupied.

[Dukat]

You do not need to understand it better as you have it correct. The "senior umpire with seventeen years of experience" is the one who needs to rethink his interpretation.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dukat

You do not need to understand it better as you have it correct. The "senior umpire with seventeen years of experience" is the one who needs to rethink his interpretation.

I doubt it. If "thinking" didn't work the first time, I doubt it will work a second.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by FullCount

ASA ruleset, Rule 8.1.b.1 states:

"Fewer than two outs and first base is not occupied at the time of the pitch, or"

... told a coach that if a runner on 1b broke for 2b on a steal that 1B was no longer occupied and that the BR could attempt to advance on D3K.

Playing the other side for a second...

Ok, Blue... according to your interpretation, if the runner broke for 2B, and 1B was not occupied at the time of the pitch, then why didn't you call the runner out for leaving the base early? If that's the case, why wasn't the pitch declared a no-pitch? That means you wouldn't have a D3K, right?

[FullCount]

Thanks to all of you. I thought I had it right but I'm at that point in my umpire learning process where I'm not always sure of myself when I hear a "senior" umpire make a statement on the field in front of coaches. Somehow things seem less certain at times in the heat of the game. Particularly one like this one that seemed so far off the wall and totally caught me by surprise. I handle it by asking quietly between us later or by checking the rules.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Thanks to all of you. I thought I had it right but I'm at that point in my umpire learning process where I'm not always sure of myself when I hear a "senior" umpire make a statement on the field in front of coaches. Somehow things seem less certain at times in the heat of the game. Particularly one like this one that seemed so far off the wall and totally caught me by surprise. I handle it by asking quietly between us later or by checking the rules.

The veterans are often doing enough codes that they might well make a mistake. But I'm with you it's tough to correct them if you're not 100% sure. I had a really good ump I was working with tell me that I needed to issue a warning when I called obstruction (FED) because the second offense was restriction to dug out. Right rule, wrong code, but I'm not sure enough to argue with somebody who knows what they are doing and it seemed reasonable enough. It's an especially tough situation if your partner says something wrong to a coach with you standing there. Even if you're right when you correct him, you're both going to look dumb.
________
Lesbians live

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by youngump

The veterans are often doing enough codes that they might well make a mistake. But I'm with you it's tough to correct them if you're not 100% sure. I had a really good ump I was working with tell me that I needed to issue a warning when I called obstruction (FED) because the second offense was restriction to dug out. Right rule, wrong code, but I'm not sure enough to argue with somebody who knows what they are doing and it seemed reasonable enough. It's an especially tough situation if your partner says something wrong to a coach with you standing there. Even if you're right when you correct him, you're both going to look dumb.

Problem is, with this rule, it is the same in all codes that I know of. There are actually very few differences between the many codes of softball.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by FullCount

Thanks to all of you. I thought I had it right but I'm at that point in my umpire learning process where I'm not always sure of myself when I hear a "senior" umpire make a statement on the field in front of coaches. Somehow things seem less certain at times in the heat of the game. Particularly one like this one that seemed so far off the wall and totally caught me by surprise. I handle it by asking quietly between us later or by checking the rules.

One of the great values of the good forums.