Inning ending mistake

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Would you ever consider correcting the coach who yells this to his team?

I dont correct the coach, but when I hear that, I say and signal the correct number of outs.

ie

Coach "OK girls 2 outs".

Me getting set "Here we go 1 down".

if coach batter & catcher dont catch on, thats their problem.

[Little Jimmy]

My umpire didn't indicate whether R1 entered the dugout area. Probably wasn't looking. Let's say she didn't. Let's say she did go close to the dugout, have someone toss her glove to her and then go to her spot on the field. Couldn't base abandonment ( Fed 8-6-22) come in to play in this situation?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

My umpire didn't indicate whether R1 entered the dugout area. Probably wasn't looking. Let's say she didn't. Let's say she did go close to the dugout, have someone toss her glove to her and then go to her spot on the field. Couldn't base abandonment ( Fed 8-6-22) come in to play in this situation?

It definitely applies if that was ruled by the umpire. I think the key here is the umpire mistake. If every one is switching and the umpire is happily cleaning the plate, and giving the impression (and believes) the inning is over, this is an umpire error and can be fixed. Had the umpire determined that the runner had abandoned her base and called her out, that would have been different. Even better would have been some preventative umpiring (but the umpire did not know how many outs).

Note that ASA is different on this rule and requires the runner to enter deadball/dugout territory for the out. NFHS does not.

What I cannot understand for the life of me is how a pitcher could pitch not giving him the chance to ascertain the number of outs.

The pitcher aint in charge of anything.

This was a failure on the part of the umpire, not a trick play.. not an abandonment (that must be declared by the umpire).. so best thing is to fix it IMO.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I dont correct the coach, but when I hear that, I say and signal the correct number of outs.

ie

Coach "OK girls 2 outs".

Me getting set "Here we go 1 down".

if coach batter & catcher dont catch on, thats their problem.

This is actually in line with what I was referring. I'm not calling out, "hey, coach, you dolt, there's only 1 out." I'm simply calling out, "1 out"

Heck, maybe *I* have the wrong number of outs, and I need to confirm it with my partner.

That's not coaching. That IS preventative umpiring. Yes, preventative umpiring can sometimes be borderline coaching, but in this case, I think it's worth your while to make sure everyone knows the correct number of outs.

[ronald]

of course not steve m. Your extrapolation is unwarranted.

Play 10.1.2 Asa casebook

(FP Only) R1 on 3b leads off after a pitch to B2. The pitcher, after receiving throw back from catcher legally plays back r1 to 3b. While ball is alive, F5, pitcher and catcher meet nearest pitcher's plate to consult. R1, seeing home plate unprotected, leaves 3b and crosses home plate, scoring.

Ruling: It ain't that the run scores. Time out should be called by the umpire. Place R1 back on 3b.

If ASA wants that on that play, I think it is reasonable that ASA would want umpires to correct an erroneous verbalization of outs by either team.

Now for you word masters that see the word should, imagine you are at a tournament and this play happens and the UIC just happens to be the person who wrote or approved this play for the casebook. Think you ain't going to get dinged or come out on the wrong side of this discussion.

If they are not going to allow a run to score on this play, then they certainly do not want any shenanigans by an unscrupulous coach. Not part of Amateur Softball and good sportsmanship.

They go on further in this section of the casebook, to state that umpires could reverse a result of an umpires signal when it is obvious that the signal was incorrect. (home run called and ball not over the fence).

If a boneheaded call by the umpire can be rectified (cause it placed a runner or batter in jeopardy) even though it was obvious that it was wrong to everyone in the park and should have been noticed by coaches and runners, I am quite certain ASA wants both teams to know the correct number of outs when either team incorrectly verbalizes the number of outs.

[Dakota]

What year case book are you quoting? The most recent I have is 2007, and a very similar play is 8-8-67B. The ruling is that defensive deception cannot be allowed to entice a runner to violate the look-back rule.

You keep trying to build your case using totally disimilar situations. For example, what possible connection does an umpire's late or changed call have to do with deception?

In the general case, it is certainly not illegal for one team to try to decieve the other into making a mistake so they can score runs or put out a runner. Before you become so sure that ASA wants all deception declared as USC, perhaps you could find some rules basis for your claim.