Inning ending mistake

[Little Jimmy]

One of my umpires described this situation that happened to him today. He wanted my opinion and thought I'd throw it out to you all. R1 on second. As the B2 steps up to plate my collegue checks his indicater and can't recall if there is one or two outs. Before he can signal to ask his partner the B2 hits a fly ball to center. F8 catches the ball and runs in as defense and offense start to change sides. He says to himself that must now be three outs, goes in, sweeps off the pitchers plate and goes out past 1st to await the new inning.

Defensive coach from a few moments ago now says, wait a minute, that last catch was only the 2nd out. He wants to appeal the runner at second for not tagging up. Umpire confirms with both books that there really was only 2 outs, and decides to put everyone back on the field and keep R1 at second base for no specific reason other than it seemed like the right thing to do.

I'm not sure what the right call is. The inning had not officially ended so I think the appeal would be good. Maybe an out for abandoning a base could be in order. Putting everyone back doesn't seem right but I don't know a rule that covers this. What do you think?

[wadeintothem]

If this is ASA I think you gotta fall back on ole Rule Number Ten..

and making it right is good enough since both the offense and defense left the field.

[Dholloway1962]

Agree with Wade. Can't put a runner in jeopardy based on an umpire mistake.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

One of my umpires described this situation that happened to him today. He wanted my opinion and thought I'd throw it out to you all. R1 on second. As the B2 steps up to plate my collegue checks his indicater and can't recall if there is one or two outs. Before he can signal to ask his partner the B2 hits a fly ball to center. F8 catches the ball and runs in as defense and offense start to change sides. He says to himself that must now be three outs, goes in, sweeps off the pitchers plate and goes out past 1st to await the new inning.

Defensive coach from a few moments ago now says, wait a minute, that last catch was only the 2nd out. He wants to appeal the runner at second for not tagging up. Umpire confirms with both books that there really was only 2 outs, and decides to put everyone back on the field and keep R1 at second base for no specific reason other than it seemed like the right thing to do.

I'm not sure what the right call is. The inning had not officially ended so I think the appeal would be good. Maybe an out for abandoning a base could be in order. Putting everyone back doesn't seem right but I don't know a rule that covers this. What do you think?

Both teams left the field - changed - voluntarily AND the coach waited "moments". No check of the books, 3 outs.

DH - that's not an umpire mistake - that's a mistake by the defense that the offense chose not to take advantage of. Bad mistake by 3B & 1B coaches!

[Little Jimmy]

Did forget to mention Fed rules. And doesn't the offense bear some responsibility for not knowing the out count and simply walking off the field?

[Stu Clary]

I got a third out. 8-7-u in ASA.

EDIT: 8-6-22 in FED

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I got a third out. 8-7-u in ASA.

Nobody said the runner entered the dugout. Every team I played with would always bring out a runner's glove at the change of the inning.

Long ago, when I started umpiring, there was a coach who used this as a ploy to catch the offense of guard.

If an inning was going a bit long, he would signal his team to hustle off the field on out #2. Half the time, the defender with the ball would just run toward the mound and tag an unsuspecting runner who has walked off the base.

Having played for that coach, I was aware of the play and would always be alert. Never had a problem calling that 3rd out, nor did I have a problem resetting the field if the offense caught on or allowing the additional bases if they were smart enough to safely advance during the charade.

[BretMan]

Had this one last year, in a competetive high school summer league...(ie: they should have known better).

Runner on third. I have one out (which was correct). Batter grounds out, 6-3. F3 rolls ball to the circle and the defense hustles off the field.

Runner at third begins to wander toward her dugout. Third base coach, maybe after noticing that I'm still watching the field, alertly tells runner to "run home!". She does and scores without a play.

Defensive coach gets bent out of shape. Seems to think the whole thing was my fault. Guess he thinks I should have killed the play and protected his team from their own blunder.

Just to be 100% sure, I check both books and both had only two outs (hey, it's not like I've ever missed one before, but had this one right).

Coach is still fuming. My response: "Coach, I didn't say there were three outs and I didn't tell your team to leave the field! They did that all on their own. Get back out there- we have another batter!".

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Had this one last year, in a competetive high school summer league...(ie: they should have known better).

Runner on third. I have one out (which was correct). Batter grounds out, 6-3. F3 rolls ball to the circle and the defense hustles off the field.

Runner at third begins to wander toward her dugout. Third base coach, maybe after noticing that I'm still watching the field, alertly tells runner to "run home!". She does and scores without a play.

Defensive coach gets bent out of shape. Seems to think the whole thing was my fault. Guess he thinks I should have killed the play and protected his team from their own blunder.

Just to be 100% sure, I check both books and both had only two outs (hey, it's not like I've ever missed one before, but had this one right).

Coach is still fuming. My response: "Coach, I didn't say there were three outs and I didn't tell your team to leave the field! They did that all on their own. Get back out there- we have another batter!".

Bret,
I had a similar happening in a high school game a couple of years ago. What turned out to be the winning run scored when the defense dropped the ball in the circle and left the field. A very funny prelude was that the defense's pitching coach had just yelled to the team that there were 2 outs (I only showed 1 and so did my partner). So nobody was nuts enough to say their mistake was our fault - but they did kinda lay into the assistant coach.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

... A very funny prelude was that the defense's pitching coach had just yelled to the team that there were 2 outs (I only showed 1 and so did my partner)....

Would you ever consider correcting the coach who yells this to his team?

Originally Posted by Dakota

Would you ever consider correcting the coach who yells this to his team?

That's coaching, not umpiring. I would only correct the number of outs if I were asked by a coach or a player.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Would you ever consider correcting the coach who yells this to his team?

I would absolutely do this. It's not coaching, it's preventative umpiring. The defense aren't the only ones who can hear this. The runners can hear it, too.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Would you ever consider correcting the coach who yells this to his team?

Tom,
No - far be it from me to correct what a coach sez to his team - I'm not a coach.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I would absolutely do this. It's not coaching, it's preventative umpiring. The defense aren't the only ones who can hear this. The runners can hear it, too.

And THEY have their own coaches who just might be aware of how many outs there really are - it is their job. By your coaching, you have prevented the offense from possibly taking advantage of the defnse's mistake. Call this a mental error by the defense - you have zero business correcting the defense.

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Nobody said the runner entered the dugout.

Nobody said the player didn't enter the dugout either.

Every team I played with would always bring out a runner's glove at the change of the inning.

Every? Always?

I'm very leerly of words like that, especially when taking an umpire test.