Foul tip?

[greymule]

ASA FP. B1 swings and nicks a pitch, which goes sharp and direct off F2's hand and then deflects off her shoulder to become lodged behind the chest protector. F2 reaches inside the protector, removes the ball, and holds it securely.

Is this a foul tip?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

ASA FP. B1 swings and nicks a pitch, which goes sharp and direct off F2's hand and then deflects off her shoulder to become lodged behind the chest protector. F2 reaches inside the protector, removes the ball, and holds it securely.

Is this a foul tip?

I would say yes, but you are going to get one helluva argument if there are baserunners advancing during this period. It won't be a valid argument, but when has that ever stopped a coach?

[3afan]

its not a foul tip - must go directly from bat to glove

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by 3afan

...a foul tip - must go directly from bat to glove

..or hand.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

..or hand.

which is what the scenario offered.

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

which is what the scenario offered.

It can't be direct into the hand if it was lodged into the protector (as the scenario offered...).

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

which is what the scenario offered.

which was my point.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I would say yes, but you are going to get one helluva argument if there are baserunners advancing during this period. It won't be a valid argument, but when has that ever stopped a coach?

You wouldn't treat it as a blocked ball? ASA 8-5-G & R/S17?

[bigsig]

Definitions: "Foul Tip: A batted ball that goes sharply and directly from the bat to the catchers hand(s) or glove/mitt and is legally caught by thwe catcher."

So in this situation if you ruled it was a legal catch it is a foul tip.

[SWFLguy]

^^^^^^

Correct ! Foul Tip--runners may advance at their own risk.

I had a similar protest situation years ago in men's fast pitch. I was the local UIC and it I was eventually involved in a 3 way conference call with then ASA UIC Tom Mason.
There is no time limit between the ball going directly/sharply to the catcher's hand/mitt and being legally caught. The ball could even bounce upward for some time before the catcher made the catch.

[BretMan]

The problem with calling this a "blocked ball" is that it does not fit any part of the "blocked ball" definition found in rule 1.

For that matter, it doesn't fit any of the requirements found in rule 8-5-G or R/S #17 either! A properly worn chect protector is neither loose equipment nor detatched equipment.

Baseball- the other white meat- has rules that cover a ball entering a player's uniform or becoming lodged in the catcher's gear. From previous discussions I seem to recall that ASA has no such rule and my quick flip through the rule book didn't turn one up.

Absent such a rule, I guess this is just a plain old foul tip- which may go from sharply and directly from the bat, first touch the catcher's hand or mitt, rebound from any part of the catcher's person or equipment, then be securely held in a manner which meets the legal requirement of "a catch".

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

You wouldn't treat it as a blocked ball? ASA 8-5-G & R/S17?

No, because it isn't a blocked ball (as BretMan noted).

The ball became stuck in official equipment properly worn by the DEFENSE over which the DEFENSE has total control. Now, if the ball entered and became lodge, stuck or took on any status to which the defense did not have immediate and unrestricted access to the ball, then it is a Dead Ball.

Check out 8.5.M

[Steve M]

Mike,
Didn't the original post state that the ball was lodged, and that the catcher reached in & got it? Maybe nit-picking, but if it's lodged I would think it should be dead.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Mike,
Didn't the original post state that the ball was lodged, and that the catcher reached in & got it? Maybe nit-picking, but if it's lodged I would think it should be dead.

Which rule reference would you use that says a ball lodged in defensive uniform or equipment that is not loose meets the definition of a blocked ball, or any rule defining a dead ball? Everyone I see relates to either loose equipment or an offensive uniform.

I'm looking at 8-5.G, 8-5.M, RS-17, and Blocked Ball (definition). They all seem to NOT apply when lodged in defensive equipment still worn. I think this is one where one may assume it SHOULD apply, but actually doesn't.

[greymule]

if it's lodged I would think it should be dead.

ASA 8-4-H

"Runners are entitled to advance with liability to be put out . . . when a live ball becomes lodged in a defensive player's uniform or equipment."

From case play 8.4-9

". . . the ball remains live while it is entangled in a defensive player's uniform or equipment."