What are your thoughts.....

[greymule]

First, you should make the call by what you see, not by some notion of "what everybody else is seeing."

That said, the play you describe is something of a HTBT. If the runner obviously beat the throw but slid completely past the plate without touching it, then you are now actually dealing with a missed-base situation, which requires an appeal the same as if a runner beat the throw to 1B but missed the bag. In ASA, before the runner returns to touch the plate, F2 can step on home and appeal to you, or (more likely) tag the runner. But if the runner had actually slid past home plate before the ball arrived, the call is safe, even if she missed it, until there's an appeal.

On the other hand, if everything happened practically simultaneously—the runner is reaching for the plate while sliding past the bag (e.g., "shoulder level with the plate), then I'd call the out. And what the fans might think is irrelevant. Incidentally, even if you were concerned with what the fans think they saw, it should have been obvious to everyone that the slap of the plate was an indication of an original miss. An experienced umpire might sell the call by announcing, "Out! Before the hand got in."

[Note: the immediate appeal by stepping on the plate with the runner still in the vicinity is possible in ASA but not some other codes. I don't know how Fed treats that play, for example.]

[bkbjones]

It is something of a HTBT, but I'd call her safe because it is an appeal play.

Some of you already know this, but I also subscribe to the survivability factor. Now that doesn't mean she doesn't have to touch the plate...and I won't call the "neighborhood" play at any base (particularly second), but survivability is, IMHO, important, including in the play as described. However, survivability is NOT aimed toward appeasing the fans in the stands or even the coaches in the dugout.

In the play described there was no appeal by the catcher, and the runner retouched before any appeal was made. Based on the info at hand, I'd rule safe...and have no qualms nor any problems with my conscience. (Well, not any more than usual. )

[Tex]

I was wondering as to why the runner missed home plate initially. Was there possible obstruction with the catcher standing on home plate?

[Andy]

The philosophy your partner was talking about is "making the expected call".

Another example: On a tag play at any base, the throw is there well before the runner, but the fielder misses the tag attempt on the sliding runner. You (umpire) may be the only person that sees the missed tag attempt, but you call the out anyway because that is the "expected call" since the ball got there in plenty of time.

IMHO, this is chickensh*t umpiring! If you aren't prepared to make the correct call as you see it and deal with the repercussions of that call, you are in the wrong avocation.


Now, at the risk of hijacking the post - I have a question for those of you that are considering the OP an appeal play:

What are you defining as "past the base"?

In the OP, as I envision it, the runner has slid feet first and missed the plate with her feet. As her slide continues, she reaches to touch the plate with her hand. Part of her body has passed the plate, but part has not. My thinking would be that she has not passed the base until her entire body has passed the base. Only then would an appeal come into play.

Also - to rule on this play as an appeal, I would need some indication from the defense that they know the runner missed the plate and are not just trying for the routine force out.

[tmielke]

She never made it past the plate. She is out unless she missed the plate on purpose due to obstruction. Also the slide as described is common although it wouldn't normally be used in a force out situation.