Unreported substitution, and then some

[gun308]

Why wouldn't someone be guilty of BOO?

[NM FP Ump]

Okay, assuming this game occurred after 8/1/2007 (Seventh Edition):

RULE 5 PLAYERS AND SUBSTITUTES
Sec. 1. PLAYERS A team shall consist of at least nine players, whose positions shall be
designated as; (1) Pitcher, (2) Catcher, (3) First Baseman, (4) Second Baseman, (5)
Third Baseman, (6) Short Stop, (7) Left Fielder, (8) Center Fielder, (9) Right Fielder, and
a designated hitter and/or up to two additional players.
A. A team must have the required number of players present in the dugout or team area
to start or continue a game.
B. The team’s lineup card shall include name, jersey number, position and batting order
of each starting player and should include each eligible substitute. Lineups become
official after they have been exchanged, verified and then accepted by the plate
umpire during the pregame conference. Eligible roster members may be added as substitutes at any time.

The correct lineup is the official lineup verified by the plate umpire at the pregame conference.

So, to reiterate the situation, we have 9 players and 1 sub, who we will name “Sub1”. Sub1 bats in the 8 spot, gets on base.
#8 batter bats in the 9 spot, gets on base.
#9 batter bats in the 1 spot, hits a double.
#1 batter bats in the 2 spot, gets a hit.
#2 batter enters batter’s box in the 3 spot. DC calls time, questions Sub1’s at bat?

RULE 5 PLAYERS AND SUBSTITUTES
Sec 5. SUBSTITUTE - A player who replaces a player that is in the game (offense or defense).
Teams are required to immediately report all substitutions to the plate umpire. Upon
notification by either team, the umpire shall announce the legal substitute and make the
appropriate lineup card changes. An unreported legal substitute brought to the umpire’s
attention will result in a penalty, all prior play shall stand.
PENALTY: For unreported substitution,
First offense: A team warning is issued.
Second offense: The manager is ejected, from the remainder of the game only.

Sub1 is now the legal player for the starter in the 8 spot.

Now, we definitely have(had) BOO. But look at Rule 9, Section 10, Subsection D.:

RULE 9. APPEALS Sec 10 Batting Out Of Order
A batter shall be called out on appeal when he fails to bat in his proper turn and another batter
completes a time at bat in his place.
NOTE: Only the defensive team may appeal out of order after the batter has completed
his time at bat.
A. When an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out and the defensive team
appeals to the umpire before the next pitch (legal or illegal), or before the infielders
leave the diamond if a half inning is ending. the umpire shall declare the proper batter
out and return all runners to the base occupied at the time of the pitch.
Exception: Any outs made on the play stand. An out for batting out of order
supersedes an out by the improper batter on a play.
NOTE: If a runner advances because of a stolen base, wild pitch or passed ball while
the improper batter is at bat, such advance is legal. B. If an improper batter becomes a runner or is put out and a legal or illegal pitch has
been delivered to the succeeding batter, or all infielders have left the diamond if a
half-inning has ended and, in all cases, before an appeal is made, the improper
batter becomes the proper batter and the results of his time at bat become legal.
C. When the proper batter is called out because he has failed to bat in turn, the next
batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of the proper batter who was
called out.
D. When an improper batter becomes a proper batter because no appeal is properly
made as above, the next batter shall be the batter whose name follows that of such
legalized improper batter. The instant an improper batter’s actions are legalized, the
batting order picks up with the name following that of the legalized improper batter.NOTE: When several players bat out of order before discovery so that a player’s time
at bat occurs while he is a runner, such player remains on base, but he is NOT out as
a batter.

Once #8 batted in the 9 spot and once a pitch was thrown, it all became legal.

“Sorry Coach, you should have caught it a couple of batters ago. All play stands.”
Boy, I would hate to be on that field, unless I haven’t fulfilled my quota of ejections for the year, because the DC is going to become unglued, or appeal the decision.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Sub1 is now the legal player for the starter in the 8 spot.

But for Sub 1 to become a legal player, someone would have to leave the batter order. That did not happen.

Does U-trip cover an "illegal player" as opposed to an unreported sub?

[NM FP Ump]

The affect of Sub1 coming into the game in the 8 spot would be as a substitute for "starter 8 spot". Next time they batted, they would bat....6 spot, 7 spot, Sub1 in the 8 spot, 9 spot, 1 spot, etc.....with "starter 8 spot" as the substitute.

USSSA does have an "illegal player" rule, but it only applies to starters/substitutes that re-enter in an incorrect batting position, or starters/substitutes that re-enter a second time, or using a pitcher that has been removed from the pitching position.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NM FP Ump

The affect of Sub1 coming into the game in the 8 spot would be as a substitute for "starter 8 spot". Next time they batted, they would bat....6 spot, 7 spot, Sub1 in the 8 spot, 9 spot, 1 spot, etc.....with "starter 8 spot" as the substitute.

USSSA does have an "illegal player" rule, but it only applies to starters/substitutes that re-enter in an incorrect batting position, or starters/substitutes that re-enter a second time, or using a pitcher that has been removed from the pitching position.

Then what is the status of Player #8 who batted after Sub1?

[gun308]

Scott,
I only have the 6th edition of the rules book.
Rule 6. Players and Substitutions.
Section 3.
The additional player if used MUST be selected prior to the start of the game, and her name must be included on the line up card presented to the umpire.
Failure to declare the additional player prior to the game precludes the use of an additional player in that game.
With that being the rule, wouldn't Sub 1 become an illegal player as soon as she batted since she should not be in the line up to start with?

[gun308]

Just downloaded the 7th Edition of USSSA rules.
An illegal player is defined as an original player or their substitute batting in an improper batting slot.
Doesn't this rule make original batter #8 becoming an illegal player?