Illegal Pitch

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NDblue

So, slapping the ball towards the ground is illegal? Isn't that INTENTIONALLY contacting the ball with dirt/chalk?...

So what? The rule is that the player may not "use" a foreign substance on the ball or on the contact points of the hand, and may not "apply" a foreign substance to the ball (ref: NFHS 6-2-2). It says nothing about keeping the ball from contact with the playing surface during normal play. I don't know why you cannot see the distinction.

Originally Posted by NDblue

....If a pitcher puts some dirt/chalk on his/her hand
...Heck, I've had pitchers almost bury the ball in dirt before they pitched it.
...the ball gets wet, the pitcher dries it off with some infield dirt,
...

All of those violate the rule. I'll grant you that most of the time in girls fastpitch, when a foreign substance is applied to the ball it is not to affect the flight of the ball in the classic spit-ball sense, but rather to improve the pitcher's grip. Nonetheless, if done improperly, it is a violation.

[NDblue]

I'm arguing what a "foreign substance" is. Is there dirt on the field of play? Is there chalk on the field of play? How are these "foreign" substances? They're part of the field and not foreign. Is there a definition of what a foreign substance is according to the ASA book? Tell me where to look as I can't find it, I have the 2006 and 2007 books right here. Rule 6, section 6.A talks about resin and saliva, says nothing about dirt/chalk.

I don't see how dirt can help a pitchers grip. I can see the opposite.

[BretMan]

Upon what assumption do you base your interpretation that the rule refers to substances foreign to the playing field and grounds rather than substances foreign to the ball?

[NDblue]

Because dirt and chalk get on the ball and on the players hands/gloves/uniforms/hair/etc. during normal play. What difference does it make if he/she puts a little more on his/her hand before touching the already dirty ball? What advantage does the pitcher have by doing this? I see none so why make a big deal out of it. These substances are not foreign to the playing field or players. I'm also not assuming anything. What makes my interpretation wrong? Show me in the rule book that dirt and chalk are considered foreign substances. You can't because it's not in there. I'm not going to make up a rule. Also, even before the first pitch is thrown, there's going to be dirt and chalk on the ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NDblue

I'm arguing what a "foreign substance" is. Is there dirt on the field of play? Is there chalk on the field of play? How are these "foreign" substances? They're part of the field and not foreign. Is there a definition of what a foreign substance is according to the ASA book? Tell me where to look as I can't find it, I have the 2006 and 2007 books right here. Rule 6, section 6.A talks about resin and saliva, says nothing about dirt/chalk.

I don't see how dirt can help a pitchers grip. I can see the opposite.

...

Try case play 6.6-4.

[BretMan]

Between the time a ball is manufactured, shipped, purchased and subsequently opened from its bag or box, is dirt and chalk part of its intristic composition?

No, therefore those substances are foreign to the ball.

Do balls get dirt or chalk on them propior to the game and during the course of normal playing action?

Of course they do, but that is not what the rule is addressing at all. The rule addresses only the actions of a player who intentionally places these substances on the ball.

[NDblue]

Don't have a case book and don't plan on buying one for this situation either. Until someone can show me in the rule book that dirt and chalk are foreign substances, I'll keep umpiring the way I umpire. For all you others that disagree with me, better start bringing more balls to the games because to be true to your interpretations of the rules, you'll need to change balls after every pitch.

[Dholloway1962]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Don't have a case book and don't plan on buying one for this situation either. Until someone can show me in the rule book that dirt and chalk are foreign substances, I'll keep umpiring the way I umpire. For all you others that disagree with me, better start bringing more balls to the games because to be true to your interpretations of the rules, you'll need to change balls after every pitch.

Uh...with that attitude you won't be umpiring very long. Pardon my sarcasm but here goes...Are you going to call balls that are hit and fielded on the foul line foul because it is called a foul line? I mean it is a foul line not a fair line!

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

Uh...with that attitude you won't be umpiring very long. Pardon my sarcasm but here goes...Are you going to call balls that are hit and fielded on the foul line foul because it is called a foul line? I mean it is a foul line not a fair line!

And this is one of the most asinine comments I've ever quoted. What are you trying to say? What the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Don't have a case book and don't plan on buying one for this situation either. ....

How about for all the other situations in it that will help you become a better umpire?

I'd type the case play for you, but it would apparently be a waste of time. It completely refutes your position that dirt is not a foreign substance.

[MNBlue]

I'll do it Tom. It's Monday, I'm at work, and not really interested in working right about now.

Play 6.6-4
F5 rubs dirt on the ball and then gives it to F1 to pitch.

Ruling: Illegal pitch. If a player continues to place a foreign substance on the ball, the player should be ejected from the game. (6-6)

Play 6.6-5
F1 places resin directly on the ball or in the glove and the resin transfers to the ball, F1 then pitches the ball before the umpire can stop play.

Ruling: Illegal pitch. Resin may be used only to dry the hands. (6-6A)

Play 6.6-8
F1 spits on the ball or licks their fingers without wiping them off on the uniform and then pitches the ball before the umpire can stop play. B1 (a) hits a double; (b) is thrown out at second base; (c) does not swing at the pitch.

Ruling: In (a) and (b) the illegal pitch is ignored and play stands since B1 reached 1B safely. In (c) the illegal pitch is enforced. (6-6A)

NDblue - buy the casebook. It is pretty useful.