Weird Situation

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

So let's add a wrinkle. The umpires do notice that the runner has not returned to 1st base. Do they hold up play until she returns, allow play to continue and take the out on LBR as soon as the ball is live in the circle, or do nothing until it is appealed by the defense. I know that LBR doesn't apply here but it's a wrinkle on a fictional situation. Personally, I think you just remind her that she is on first and send her back and then resume the game

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

I got an email indicating that a reply had been posted that did apply the LBR. I wanted to ask about that since I did not see it either. She is already standing on the next base whether she goes back to first or not. I know I included it in the WP (wrinkle post) but that was just to see what if any justification someone might have before applying it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

I have seen and heard some misguided types attempt to invoke the LBR in this type of situation; their logic is that the runner is off the "legal" base.

Some have attempted to invoke 8.7-Y, when baserunners switch positions. But, that is a specific and limited scenario that doesn't apply here; not two switching, and not following an offensive conference.

The closest to having a good argument is 8.7-S; The runner is out ... "When the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which the runner is entitled until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand." This is a base to which the runner is not entitled, so an argument could be made that the umpire should declare this runner out on the first pitch.

Personally, that sounds like double secret probation to me. If you realize the runner is on the wrong base before the pitch, you have a responsibility to hold up play and make the runner return. If you haven't that integrity, you could call the runner out on that first pitch only, and would be technically correct. If you don't realize it, you can't call it. Once a pitch has been thrown, you cannot correct it.