Weird Situation

[MOofficial]

This is something that is probably never going to happen, but what would be the ruling.

R1 on first, Batter hits a long fly ball down the line, R1 is going with the hit and run, R1 does not quit running even though it is fly ball, makes it all the way to 3rd. Umpire announces "Foul Ball" R1 decides to go back to second not first, no one realizes where she is at. Players are ready to go on, pitcher pitches the ball, umpires do not realize what is going on, Batter swings another time hits a line drive to the outfield, R1 scores, ball game is over with the run. Wait coach comes out and says that R1 did not go all way back to first on the foul ball, she stayed at second. What happens, I'd assume you would have to redo it all, putting the runner back on First.

[Dholloway1962]

In my opinion you have a run and nothing changes. A pitch has been thrown since the runner was "accidentally" on second so the coach has no appeal options available.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dholloway1962

In my opinion you have a run and nothing changes. A pitch has been thrown since the runner was "accidentally" on second so the coach has no appeal options available.

I agree - it's too late to put this worm back in the can. Besides, after this hit and the score, there's no REAL way to prove that the runner actually started on 2nd. I would assume that if the umpires and teams were oblivious enough to not put the runner back in the first place, they'd be similarly oblivious enough not to know where this runner started.

I honestly can't see this happening - especially in a 2-umpire game. Umpire would be in B, see the foul ball, head back to B, and then see the runner and go, "Wait a minute, something is wrong here."

[Skahtboi]

You would think that one of the umpires would have noticed the runner at the different base, if for no other reason than the one Mike C already cited.

However, to address the OP, I agree that the losing coach waited too long to say anything, as at that point it would be nearly impossible to prove where the runner started, or was supposed to have been.

[tcblue13]

So let's add a wrinkle. The umpires do notice that the runner has not returned to 1st base. Do they hold up play until she returns, allow play to continue and take the out on LBR as soon as the ball is live in the circle, or do nothing until it is appealed by the defense. I know that LBR doesn't apply here but it's a wrinkle on a fictional situation. Personally, I think you just remind her that she is on first and send her back and then resume the game

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

So let's add a wrinkle. The umpires do notice that the runner has not returned to 1st base. Do they hold up play until she returns, allow play to continue and take the out on LBR as soon as the ball is live in the circle, or do nothing until it is appealed by the defense. I know that LBR doesn't apply here but it's a wrinkle on a fictional situation. Personally, I think you just remind her that she is on first and send her back and then resume the game

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

I got an email indicating that a reply had been posted that did apply the LBR. I wanted to ask about that since I did not see it either. She is already standing on the next base whether she goes back to first or not. I know I included it in the WP (wrinkle post) but that was just to see what if any justification someone might have before applying it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

If the umpires notice, simply put her on the right base. The ball was dead on the foul - it doesn't become live until the umpires make it live. Even if the umpires chose for some odd reason to allow her to stay, there's no rule basis for using LBR (what part does this runner standing on 2nd base violate?!?!) and no other rule basis I can think of for calling her out at all.

I have seen and heard some misguided types attempt to invoke the LBR in this type of situation; their logic is that the runner is off the "legal" base.

Some have attempted to invoke 8.7-Y, when baserunners switch positions. But, that is a specific and limited scenario that doesn't apply here; not two switching, and not following an offensive conference.

The closest to having a good argument is 8.7-S; The runner is out ... "When the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which the runner is entitled until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand." This is a base to which the runner is not entitled, so an argument could be made that the umpire should declare this runner out on the first pitch.

Personally, that sounds like double secret probation to me. If you realize the runner is on the wrong base before the pitch, you have a responsibility to hold up play and make the runner return. If you haven't that integrity, you could call the runner out on that first pitch only, and would be technically correct. If you don't realize it, you can't call it. Once a pitch has been thrown, you cannot correct it.