Illegal pitch hit twice...

[DeRef]

Had something happen during a recent tournament (luckily not on my game) that I can not find a rule to cover. ASA SP rules.

Pitch is thrown and called illegal but batter swings and bounces the ball back to the pitcher. However, the batter remains stationary in the batters box. For some unknown reason, the pitcher pitches the ball again which the batter hits for a single.

How should this have been handled. I have had people say that you should rule the now B-R out for not going to first, that the runner should have been awarded first since the fielder failed to make a play, and that the B-R is now out for hitting the ball twice. I have searched the book without finding anything that would cover this situation. Thanks for your help.

[NCASAUmp]

Only thing I can come up with is 7-6-K-1.

Effect: Foul ball.

Unless you have other runners (say, bases loaded), then there could be the possibility of INT.

[CelticNHBlue]

I haven't done much slow pitch the past few years, but I will give it a go...

The result of an illegal pitch put in play gives the offense the option of taking the result of the play or a ball on the batter. Reading the minds of the players I could tell that the batter decided s/he would be out and saved the effort of running. The pitcher acknowledged the batter's decision to accept the out but in place of that take a ball. The end result is the next play, another pitch by the pitcher hit for a single by the batter. For statistical purposes, we should confirm the pitch count for the pitcher.


Having answered the question, IMO, this should never have been allowed to happen. First, the ball is in play, the umpire should vacate their position behind the plate and prepare for what should be a play made somewhere. This should help relay a message to everyone that something should be happening, and not another pitch since the plate umpire is not in position to call a pitch. If no one is moving, they are certainly going to look to you for guidance and using your mechanics to show that you are expecting a play should sink in, eventually, that someone needs to be doing something.

I had this happen in a U-18 fastpitch game this summer. It took at least 15 seconds of me standing in the infield between the pitcher and batter before a coach told a player to make a play/run to first. It was awkward, but you certainly can not tell one team or the other to do something, you have to let them figure it out. If, ultimately, no one does anything, you call time, award a ball on the batter and move on. The key to this is that it is obvious no one knows what to do or the rule. You will be explaining to both coaches what should have transpired, but I see no way to punish one team for the ignorance of both teams.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DeRef

Had something happen during a recent tournament (luckily not on my game) that I can not find a rule to cover. ASA SP rules.

Pitch is thrown and called illegal but batter swings and bounces the ball back to the pitcher. However, the batter remains stationary in the batters box. For some unknown reason, the pitcher pitches the ball again which the batter hits for a single.

How should this have been handled. I have had people say that you should rule the now B-R out for not going to first, that the runner should have been awarded first since the fielder failed to make a play, and that the B-R is now out for hitting the ball twice. I have searched the book without finding anything that would cover this situation. Thanks for your help.

Speaking ASA

IP became irrelevant the moment the batter attempted to hit the ball.

The umpire should have been out from behind the plate when the batter put the ball into play. That would (or should have been) an indication to the pitcher that there was a live ball in play and to NOT pitch it again.

Since a fair batted ball is in play and the play has yet to reach a conclusion or resolution, whatever the pitcher does cannot be considered a pitch. Since there is no prohibition on how the pitcher gets the ball to 1B, he is allowed to throw it to the catcher to relay it to 1B. I know it's a stretch, but there is nothing to prohibit such action.

I guess the question of who is dumber, the batter-runner or pitcher should be considered, but if protested, I would have to rule the BR out for interfering with the defense's ability to complete a play.

As previously stated, if the umpire is hustling and doing his job, I think it is likely this wouldn't have happened.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Since there is no prohibition on how the pitcher gets the ball to 1B, he is allowed to throw it to the catcher to relay it to 1B. I know it's a stretch, but there is nothing to prohibit such action.

Or, throwing the ball to F2 so F2 can tag the BR.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

I haven't done much slow pitch the past few years, but I will give it a go...

The result of an illegal pitch put in play gives the offense the option of taking the result of the play or a ball on the batter. Reading the minds of the players I could tell that the batter decided s/he would be out and saved the effort of running. The pitcher acknowledged the batter's decision to accept the out but in place of that take a ball.

As you said, you don't do slow pitch anymore, so you are thinking fastpitch.

In slowpitch, there is no option if the batter swings at an illegal pitch; the illegal pitch is made legal by the swing. Live ball, result of the play is the only possible result.

I agree with your solution for fastpitch, if the PU mistakenly allowed the next pitch to be thrown, then someone questioned the result.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Or, throwing the ball to F2 so F2 can tag the BR.

So obvious I was oblivious to that option.

[CelticNHBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

IP became irrelevant the moment the batter attempted to hit the ball.

Thnks for refreshing my memory on that diffenece, Mike. Based on this, I would have to agree that the defense has to be given the right to make a play, in whatever fashion they desire, and thus the batter is interfering and should be called out.

[DeRef]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Since a fair batted ball is in play and the play has yet to reach a conclusion or resolution, whatever the pitcher does cannot be considered a pitch. Since there is no prohibition on how the pitcher gets the ball to 1B, he is allowed to throw it to the catcher to relay it to 1B. I know it's a stretch, but there is nothing to prohibit such action.

I guess the question of who is dumber, the batter-runner or pitcher should be considered, but if protested, I would have to rule the BR out for interfering with the defense's ability to complete a play.

That is the best answer that I have heard... At least it has a logical reason for calling the batter out. You would be suprised how many umpires have been unable to come up with a logical answer (including me ). Thanks for your help.