Illegal Bat.

[Agreen_14]

ASA rules.

Before the game, one of the players from team X asks what bats are they allowed to use. I say "ASA approved bats". He says The "Freak and Freak Plus" and I say "As long as they are stamped". I'm brand new to umpiring and I didn't have my non-approved bats list with me (they called me last minute to umpire 2 games). The catcher said to me, "Not the Freak +, make sure to keep and eye out for that for me would ya?" I say "okay"... Well I didn't keep an eye out for the bat (which is a USSSA bat) and team X used the bat a lot in the game. Well it comes down to the 7th inning and team X ties it up in the top of the inning. Then the home team scores 0 in the bottom... To make a long story short, the game went into 9 innings and team x goes on a 14 run scoring tear (not using an illegal bat). When team A comes into the dugout after making 3 outs one of the guys says "Can we appeal that the other team used an illegal bat?" I say no, you have to appeal that when it's being used. And another guy says "He told you to watch for that bat?" I say "Sorry, I didn't see the bat" "If you want to appeal a player using an illegal bat you have to do so at the proper time, it's not my responsibilty to stop play and tell the batter to use another bat".. Oh yeah I did tell team X to put the bat away after 7 innings becuase the catcher had brought it to my attention.

I know I probably screwed this up, but I want to learn from it, so I don't make the same mistake again. Team A was okay with everything after the game, and all was good. They were just a little irritated that the other team had just got about 17 hits.

[Agreen_14]

What rules describe this in the book? Can someone give me the sections please?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

What rules describe this in the book? Can someone give me the sections please?

Requirements for a legal bat: ASA 3-1 (and, the stamp is not sufficient - you also need the non-approved list)

Penalty for use: ASA 7-6-B, C, and 8-7-X.

See also Rules Supplement 4.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

... it's not my responsibilty to stop play and tell the batter to use another bat".. .

That's not going to look very favorable in front of a jury.

this is a rhetorical question, and isn't intended just for Agreen: How can you NOT have a non-approved bat list with you?

[Agreen_14]

WEll I guess I really dropped the ball on that one. I'll make sure to be prepared next time... I thought they had to appeal the bat before a pitch to get the batter runner or during the use of the bat. ??

[NCASAUmp]

A batter stepping in with a non-approved bat is not an appeal play. That's an automatic by the PU.

I usually print up a copy of the list with the setting of 6 pages per sheet. If your eyes are okay with small print, you can cut it down to almost a credit card sized sheet, fold it up, and tuck it away.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

A batter stepping in with a non-approved bat is not an appeal play. That's an automatic by the PU.

I usually print up a copy of the list with the setting of 6 pages per sheet. If your eyes are okay with small print, you can cut it down to almost a credit card sized sheet, fold it up, and tuck it away.

yep, mines small and stays in my line up card holder. Its just must have gear.. never know... and I know I'm not smart enough to remember them all.

[Four Seam]

In many years of coaching at all levels and venues, I can't recall ever having seen an umpire inspect a bat when a batter comes up to bat. What I have seen, of course, is umpires inspecting the bats on the bat racks before the games. And I have thought to myself, what if, during the game, a batter brings her own bat in from her bag and goes up to bat with it, which on some teams could be almost every batter? That bat might be a banned bat, but it will probably not be looked at by the umpire. What is an umpire expected to do to enforce the rule?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by Four Seam

In many years of coaching at all levels and venues, I can't recall ever having seen an umpire inspect a bat when a batter comes up to bat. What I have seen, of course, is umpires inspecting the bats on the bat racks before the games. And I have thought to myself, what if, during the game, a batter brings her own bat in from her bag and goes up to bat with it, which on some teams could be almost every batter? That bat might be a banned bat, but it will probably not be looked at by the umpire. What is an umpire expected to do to enforce the rule?

C'mon down to Seattle. I was doing the Emerald City Women's League on Wednesday. I checked the bats before the game. Player arrives late - I know this because they tell me SusieQ has arrived and they are adding her to the lineup.

SusieQ is going to lead off the next inning, and I am standing on the baseline near the on deck circle (not much foul territory at this field, so we are very close) I see what she has in her hands. It says "Ultra II" and I know it';s not legal.

So...I say, "Hey you're the one who came in late. I need to check your bats."

She doesn't bat an eye. (Pardpn the pun.) She brings me TWO Ultra II bats. I gently inform her that no, these aren't approved bats. She balks slightly, so I pull out the handy dandy sheet with photos.

Now I didn't have to do this and know I will catch grief from a few (I can name them already), but I'd just as soon not chuck somebody. IMHO, sometimes it's knowing what level the players/leagues are. Not being championship play, I also feel I have a little more leeway.

However, if Bubba "Troublemaker" Testosterone steps into the box with his UltraCompHammerBomb X2 because he wants to show off, heck with him. They know better, and it really doesn't take that long to file a report with our e-system.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Four Seam

In many years of coaching at all levels and venues, I can't recall ever having seen an umpire inspect a bat when a batter comes up to bat. What I have seen, of course, is umpires inspecting the bats on the bat racks before the games. And I have thought to myself, what if, during the game, a batter brings her own bat in from her bag and goes up to bat with it, which on some teams could be almost every batter? That bat might be a banned bat, but it will probably not be looked at by the umpire. What is an umpire expected to do to enforce the rule?

I don't "inspect" them as they come up to bat, but I am taking a look at the bat when the batters step in. If it's a bat that I don't recognize as being checked during the pre-game, then unless I immediately recognize the bat as being on/off the list, I will hold the pitch and take a look at it. I do mostly rec ball, and players show up late. If the player with the unknown bat showed up late and the bat's non-approved, then I'll cut them some slack and say, "You just got here? Let me check that bat. Hmm... This one was banned. Go get another."

I've even had some players show up late with non-approved bats and ask me to look at it as they approach the box for their first at-bat. I greatly appreciate their honesty, and I'll tell them to get another bat without penalty.

Yeah, I know what the rule says, but this is rec ball, and I'm willing to be reasonable.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

A batter stepping in with a non-approved bat is not an appeal play. That's an automatic by the PU.

I usually print up a copy of the list with the setting of 6 pages per sheet. If your eyes are okay with small print, you can cut it down to almost a credit card sized sheet, fold it up, and tuck it away.

On the "Cactus Umpires" site is a pdf file of non-approvd bats that is wallet sized. I print that off, and cut in half then laminate it. Put one in your line-up holder, a couple in your equipment bag, and even one in your wallet. You'll never get caught without again! Just be sure to check for updates.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Four Seam

In many years of coaching at all levels and venues, I can't recall ever having seen an umpire inspect a bat when a batter comes up to bat. What I have seen, of course, is umpires inspecting the bats on the bat racks before the games. And I have thought to myself, what if, during the game, a batter brings her own bat in from her bag and goes up to bat with it, which on some teams could be almost every batter? That bat might be a banned bat, but it will probably not be looked at by the umpire. What is an umpire expected to do to enforce the rule?

I look at em when people come to bat at times - a spot check. I don't make a show of it, I just glance at the bat.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

C'mon down to Seattle. I was doing the Emerald City Women's League on Wednesday. I checked the bats before the game. Player arrives late - I know this because they tell me SusieQ has arrived and they are adding her to the lineup.

SusieQ is going to lead off the next inning, and I am standing on the baseline near the on deck circle (not much foul territory at this field, so we are very close) I see what she has in her hands. It says "Ultra II" and I know it';s not legal.

So...I say, "Hey you're the one who came in late. I need to check your bats."

She doesn't bat an eye. (Pardpn the pun.) She brings me TWO Ultra II bats. I gently inform her that no, these aren't approved bats. She balks slightly, so I pull out the handy dandy sheet with photos.

Now I didn't have to do this and know I will catch grief from a few (I can name them already), but I'd just as soon not chuck somebody. IMHO, sometimes it's knowing what level the players/leagues are. Not being championship play, I also feel I have a little more leeway.

However, if Bubba "Troublemaker" Testosterone steps into the box with his UltraCompHammerBomb X2 because he wants to show off, heck with him. They know better, and it really doesn't take that long to file a report with our e-system.

Imho you did the right thing. Our job is to officiate the game and keep the players in the game. I don't like ejecting a player unless they step out of line . I see nothing wrong in your approach and yes at the higher level of ball they should know what's legal and what's not!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Imho you did the right thing. Our job is to officiate the game and keep the players in the game. I don't like ejecting a player unless they step out of line . I see nothing wrong in your approach and yes at the higher level of ball they should know what's legal and what's not!

I agree and don't look forward to an ejection. However, it is not the umpire's job to keep a player in the game. That would be the coach's job.

It is the umpire's job to understand the coach's job and allow them to do it. It is the coach's job to protect his players and help them win the game.