"New" NCAA 3-man mechanic

[azbigdawg]

Apparently, they have decided to change the fly ball responsibilities with U1 in "B" position.

U3 has ALL fly ball Fair/Foul coverage from the CF to the left field fence.
U1 Has the CF to the RF
P has the RF all the way to the right field fence......

thoughts?

[DNTXUM P]

I talked to Emily about this last week. It makes sense. Earlier in the week, doing 3 man, we had a play with the ball ihit to left center, the 1U went out for the ball, the 3U went over between 1st & 2nd, virtually crossing each other, plus the 1U had to make the call on a diving ball with the fielder going away form him. This way, the 3U can make the call while having the ball coming toward him and the 1U can stay put and have all action in front of him since the NCAA is now emphasizing staying outside whenever posssible.

[Skahtboi]

Sounds good to me. That is until I get out there and forget it the first two or three times!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

I talked to Emily about this last week. It makes sense. Earlier in the week, doing 3 man, we had a play with the ball ihit to left center, the 1U went out for the ball, the 3U went over between 1st & 2nd, virtually crossing each other, plus the 1U had to make the call on a diving ball with the fielder going away form him. This way, the 3U can make the call while having the ball coming toward him and the 1U can stay put and have all action in front of him since the NCAA is now emphasizing staying outside whenever posssible.

That doesn't make sense. Please set the play.

Thanks

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

I talked to Emily about this last week. It makes sense. Earlier in the week, doing 3 man, we had a play with the ball ihit to left center, the 1U went out for the ball, the 3U went over between 1st & 2nd, virtually crossing each other, plus the 1U had to make the call on a diving ball with the fielder going away form him. This way, the 3U can make the call while having the ball coming toward him and the 1U can stay put and have all action in front of him since the NCAA is now emphasizing staying outside whenever posssible.

ok..you lost me a little....... WHY did 1U make this call in left with the fielder going away from him? It seems like its 3U's ball... or am I reading it wrong?.....

I will probably call her tomorrow and get the reasoning.....

[DNTXUM P]

ok..you lost me a little....... WHY did 1U make this call in left with the fielder going away from him? It seems like its 3U's ball... or am I reading it wrong?.....

R1 on 2B. 1U in " B" position, 3U in "C" at 3B. Sinking line drive to left center. Under the old system, 1U had the catch/no catch in left center since the play was between LF and RF. 3U had the tag up responsibility for R1 at 2B. Also the BR touching 1B if there was no catch.

Under the new system, 3U will take the catch, 1U will have the tag up. Easier for both umps to make the call.

If I am still not making myself clear, I apologize and will try better.

This is NCAA only with 3 umpire system.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

R1 on 2B. 1U in " B" position, 3U in "C" at 3B. Sinking line drive to left center. Under the old system, 1U had the catch/no catch in left center since the play was between LF and RF. 3U had the tag up responsibility for R1 at 2B. Also the BR touching 1B if there was no catch.

Under the new system, 3U will take the catch, 1U will have the tag up. Easier for both umps to make the call.

If I am still not making myself clear, I apologize and will try better.

This is NCAA only with 3 umpire system.

So where do you cross with U3? U3 should be coming inside around 10 o'clock to the circle, watch touch and tag, release. Meanwhile, U1 would be heading toward CF and have a perfect angle for a sinking line drive to LC.

Now, if it were a deep shot where CF was moving away from you, I could see a possible problem, but not in what you described.

Meanwhile, if U3 takes the ball to LC, and if there is a catch and tag-up, U1 is now covering a play into the base U3 just abandoned (assuming NCAA's assignments are similar to ASA's).

As a matter of consistency, I would think of "C" position being behind SS, not on the 3B line even though the C is not used in the 3-umpire system (though I still think it should be).

[DNTXUM P]

So where do you cross with U3? U3 should be coming inside around 10 o'clock to the circle, watch touch and tag, release. Meanwhile, U1 would be heading toward CF and have a perfect angle for a sinking line drive to LC.

In my first post, I said virtually crossing each other. With a sinking line drive that the center fielder is diving for in left center, she would be going away from 1U and sometimes difficult to get an angle on to see if she traps or catches the ball. Also, there could be a crossing pattern, even though the umps could be 30 - 40 feet away from each other.

Meanwhile, if U3 takes the ball to LC, and if there is a catch and tag-up, U1 is now covering a play into the base U3 just abandoned (assuming NCAA's assignments are similar to ASA's).

NCAA is not similar to ASA. They use the umpire ahead theory. That means that PU would be up to 3B for the play into the bag if R1 tags and goes to 3B.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

R1 on 2B. 1U in " B" position, 3U in "C" at 3B. Sinking line drive to left center. Under the old system, 1U had the catch/no catch in left center since the play was between LF and RF. 3U had the tag up responsibility for R1 at 2B. Also the BR touching 1B if there was no catch.

Under the new system, 3U will take the catch, 1U will have the tag up. Easier for both umps to make the call.

If I am still not making myself clear, I apologize and will try better.

This is NCAA only with 3 umpire system.

Gotcha..looked at it wrong...thanks...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

In my first post, I said virtually crossing each other. With a sinking line drive that the center fielder is diving for in left center, she would be going away from 1U and sometimes difficult to get an angle on to see if she traps or catches the ball. Also, there could be a crossing pattern, even though the umps could be 30 - 40 feet away from each other.

Okay. I'm seeing a "sinking" line drive as something that would not be behind an outfielder.

NCAA is not similar to ASA. They use the umpire ahead theory. That means that PU would be up to 3B for the play into the bag if R1 tags and goes to 3B.

To the best of my knowledge, every 3-umpire system is based on a base-ahead theory. However, in ASA's 3-umpire system, the base umpire always has the last runner to 3B. On a caught ball, the tag and call at 3B would be the umpire in the infield and the PU stays a base ahead and covers home.

With a single runner and two umpires, what sense does it make to pull the PU from the plate. If this were just a 2-umpire game and the BU didn't go out, would the PU have the call at 3B?

[CelticNHBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If this were just a 2-umpire game and the BU didn't go out, would the PU have the call at 3B?

Maybe, but it would be a deviation and is one that I typically discuss in pre-game to avoid issues but do not prefer to utilize.

Back to the initial question, I haven't come up with a scenario that makes this a great new mechanic. Any fly ball sitch that is a potential negative in the original mechanic can also be said of the new mechanic. By relative positioning, U1 is 'outside' F8 so any ball caught by F8 going away from U1 will be a challange. I use 'outside' to mean that the umpire will be positioned such that the fielder is between themselves and the ball. Replace U1 with U3 and F8 with F7 and you have the exact same issues. There must be something inside the diamond that benefits this change in some scenario that would initiate this change; I just haven't figured it out yet.

All I see this as for now is another rule/mechanic that umpires will have to learn and apply to the appropriate governing body when working. I would prefer they all be the same, but when in Rome...