NFHS 2008 rule changes

[IRISHMAFIA]

Oh, I forgot about the point that metal spikes have very little give when they work properly. Look for some more rolled ankles and wrenched knees.

BTW, all my posts on this subject come from personal experience. I wore metal spikes up until the local league outlawed them. I also witnessed quite a bit when coaching.

Metal spikes on those who know how to use them is not a bad thing. On players who are barely coached on how to slide properly and in a game where Olympic players have demonstrated sliding as feet-first, I don't think this is a good idea.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Oh, I forgot about the point that metal spikes have very little give when they work properly. Look for some more rolled ankles and wrenched knees.

BTW, all my posts on this subject come from personal experience. I wore metal spikes up until the local league outlawed them. I also witnessed quite a bit when coaching.

Metal spikes on those who know how to use them is not a bad thing. On players who are barely coached on how to slide properly and in a game where Olympic players have demonstrated sliding as feet-first, I don't think this is a good idea.

Do you think it possible that coaches might have also some experience playing with spikes and realize they can no longer be lax in teaching players how to both slide and how to play their bases correctly?

So long as softball "cleats" were these little plastic knobs, there was little point in spending practice time on the techniques, right?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Do you think it possible that coaches might have also some experience playing with spikes and realize they can no longer be lax in teaching players how to both slide and how to play their bases correctly?

Possible, but not necessarily so. There is no guarantee the coach is even going to have any softball experience as it isn't required in some areas. Some of these girls are not even aware there are softball shoes with metal plates and spikes on the sole.

So long as softball "cleats" were these little plastic knobs, there was little point in spending practice time on the techniques, right?

Have you seen some of the techniques at the HS level? Have you seen some of the college kids slide?

A couple of years ago, an Olympian (Leah O'Brien-Amico maybe) did one of these tip clips on sliding during the NCAA's or Olympic broadcasts.

Her advice was when sliding, lead with your feet and legs into the base. When she demonstrated, it looked as if she basically just threw her feet toward the base and laid down. I was astounded that someone who had made it that far in the game of softball did not know how to slide. I was even more surprised that some idiot had her offering tips to young players.

I don't want to see it, but I'm confident there will be issues involving injuries caused by young ladies wearing equipment with which they are not familiar.

But, Tom, you don't have to believe me. After all, you didn't believe us last year about the bats.

[Bandit]

Hey...Irish gangster guy....You say all this knowledge you have comes from first hand experience??? Including coaching...... Well, I think if any coach is worth a grain of salt they need to know how to teach sliding properly. So you are saying that all baseball coaches properly teach sliding? Is that why they get to use them? Maybe you do not know how to teach it but they have clinics for that if you would like to attend. I have had countless girls go on to play in college and they all come back and ask why they could not wear metal cleats in high school. I personally wrote letters to the federation trying to get the rule changed. Needless to say, I think they made the right decision.

You dont see girl basketball players wearing penny loafers do you? No, they play on the same surface that the boys do and they are permitted to wear the same type of shoe because it gives them the best traction. Listen carefully, I will type slow so you can understand me....the rule doesnt state that they HAVE to wear them. It just gives them the option.

There is a reason why high school baseball, college baseball and softball, pro baseball and softball wear them. They dont wear them because they sound cool walking on concrete!!!! They give you better traction. If you played something other then rec -league slow pitch, you would realize that games and players that are played at a high level need good traction on many different types of surfaces.

Dont bash high school coaches......I am one and I take offense to your biased view of the female ego comment and I am a male coach. Sounds like someone needs a bigger soap box. I applaud the federation for finally making the change. Let me guess....next thing is you will be for madatory face mask for the centerfielder and everyone using wiffle ball bats!!!

Stick to learning where the strike zone actually is and let the coaches and players deal with equipment issues that helps the athlete perform at a higher level. By the way scrapes and cuts heal a lot faster than pulled muscles or blown ACLs due to slipping or sliding.....

[wadeintothem]

WHo really cares?

If they allow it they allow it..

Just gotta watch the catchers so they dont damage our own equipment.

Teaching someone how to slide with metal cleats is their problem. 20 girls can get sliced up and twisted ankles because of their stupid rule change and I wont shed a tear until someone runs their spikes over my nice plate shoes.

An umpires gotta feel dumb asking a player to remove her bracelet when she is running around with feet fulls of metal spikes though. Thats funny... but yep, the blues gotta do it.

[bkbjones]

Your honor,
I hereby submit Exhibit A, covering several items but not quite making sense about any of them. The overall failure of the US public school system would be paramount. Secondly, your honor, I believe this is just cause for one of our favorite cliches: "stupid coaches."

Attending a freaking clinic doesn't mean someone knows or doesn't know how to properly teach sliding, slide rule or anything else. I know two high school basketball coaches who, between the two, have won almost 2,000 games. They have freely admitted they are lost when it comes to coaching some aspects of post play.A coach who admits their shortcomings and works to overcome them is worth far more than any grain of salt.

Now, as far as putting down Irishmafia, you have no idea of whom or what you speak. Mike doesn't need me to defend him, but I will wager dollars to donuts he has done more on a national level than you, sir, have done on a local level -- not to mention the work Mike has done on a local and state level.

Finally, NFHS isn't about playing games at "a high level of competition." NFHS is about participation. Renton (WA) High School hasn't won 10 games in five years, but there have been about 200 girls who have participated. There are far more Rentons out there than whatever school you claim to coach.

(Oh, and if you would get your butt out there with a rake and make the field a little better, maybe you wouldn't have so many pulls, blown whatevers, et cetera.)

Originally Posted by Bandit

Hey...Irish gangster guy....You say all this knowledge you have comes from first hand experience??? Including coaching...... Well, I think if any coach is worth a grain of salt they need to know how to teach sliding properly. So you are saying that all baseball coaches properly teach sliding? Is that why they get to use them? Maybe you do not know how to teach it but they have clinics for that if you would like to attend. I have had countless girls go on to play in college and they all come back and ask why they could not wear metal cleats in high school. I personally wrote letters to the federation trying to get the rule changed. Needless to say, I think they made the right decision.

You dont see girl basketball players wearing penny loafers do you? No, they play on the same surface that the boys do and they are permitted to wear the same type of shoe because it gives them the best traction. Listen carefully, I will type slow so you can understand me....the rule doesnt state that they HAVE to wear them. It just gives them the option.

There is a reason why high school baseball, college baseball and softball, pro baseball and softball wear them. They dont wear them because they sound cool walking on concrete!!!! They give you better traction. If you played something other then rec -league slow pitch, you would realize that games and players that are played at a high level need good traction on many different types of surfaces.

Dont bash high school coaches......I am one and I take offense to your biased view of the female ego comment and I am a male coach. Sounds like someone needs a bigger soap box. I applaud the federation for finally making the change. Let me guess....next thing is you will be for madatory face mask for the centerfielder and everyone using wiffle ball bats!!!

Stick to learning where the strike zone actually is and let the coaches and players deal with equipment issues that helps the athlete perform at a higher level. By the way scrapes and cuts heal a lot faster than pulled muscles or blown ACLs due to slipping or sliding.....

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by Bandit

Hey...Irish gangster guy....You say all this knowledge you have comes from first hand experience??? Including coaching...... Well, I think if any coach is worth a grain of salt they need to know how to teach sliding properly. So you are saying that all baseball coaches properly teach sliding? Is that why they get to use them? Maybe you do not know how to teach it but they have clinics for that if you would like to attend. I have had countless girls go on to play in college and they all come back and ask why they could not wear metal cleats in high school. I personally wrote letters to the federation trying to get the rule changed. Needless to say, I think they made the right decision.

You dont see girl basketball players wearing penny loafers do you? No, they play on the same surface that the boys do and they are permitted to wear the same type of shoe because it gives them the best traction. Listen carefully, I will type slow so you can understand me....the rule doesnt state that they HAVE to wear them. It just gives them the option.

There is a reason why high school baseball, college baseball and softball, pro baseball and softball wear them. They dont wear them because they sound cool walking on concrete!!!! They give you better traction. If you played something other then rec -league slow pitch, you would realize that games and players that are played at a high level need good traction on many different types of surfaces.

Dont bash high school coaches......I am one and I take offense to your biased view of the female ego comment and I am a male coach. Sounds like someone needs a bigger soap box. I applaud the federation for finally making the change. Let me guess....next thing is you will be for madatory face mask for the centerfielder and everyone using wiffle ball bats!!!

Stick to learning where the strike zone actually is and let the coaches and players deal with equipment issues that helps the athlete perform at a higher level. By the way scrapes and cuts heal a lot faster than pulled muscles or blown ACLs due to slipping or sliding.....

Deep breath....relax and step back before you step in the shi........ Never mind..too late.....

(I cant believe you said "higher level" when it comes to Fed softball)

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Deep breath....relax and step back before you step in the shi........ Never mind..too late.....

(I cant believe you said "higher level" when it comes to Fed softball)

Obviously, Darrell, we've got one of those knowledgable high school coaches

[Bandit]

I can't believe bkbjones stated "NFHS is about participation". Last time I checked most high schools have either if not both: "try-outs" &/or "cuts". Participation rules are for the local "rec" league, they don't "try-out" or have "cuts".

Don't think or believe that by this comment that I think there is not a places for the local rec league. I have umpired and coached softball at all levels. At the highschool field and the local park. These is a place and a need for both. There are some that just need to know where the line for both is drawn. My personal opinion is that by bkbjones comment is that he one of those that needs to learn where that line is, or at least where and which fields the different games are being played on.

I just hope I never see any posts about how bad bkbjones last night HS game was or how long it took to get threw the terrible pitching his last nights HS game provided. Because he did indeed state HS ball is about "participation".

[Steve M]

Bandit,
Numerous folks from the Fed rules committee - past, present, and most likely future - have stated that the priorities for high school ball are participation, safety, and then compliance with other sanctioning bodies.
But you're a knowledgable high school coach - so you already knew that BK was absolutely correct in his statement.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Bandit

I can't believe bkbjones stated "NFHS is about participation". Last time I checked most high schools have either if not both: "try-outs" &/or "cuts". Participation rules are for the local "rec" league, they don't "try-out" or have "cuts".

Just because that is the way it is in IN, doesn't mean it is that way everywhere. Reasoning commonly offered for not requiring two feet in contact with the PP, participation. Reasoning recently offered for not moving pitching distance to 43', participation.

In some areas, some HS teams couldn't beat an ASA 16U travel team if their life depended on it. Whether you like it or not, HS ball just isn't as competitive in all markets as some would like to believe. There are still areas where HS softball is still nothing more than a token sport to satisfy the Title IX requirements.

[bkbjones]

Hey Bandit,
You won't see that from me about how bad my game was. There is about an 80% chance that I have two more years left to umpire after this, and about two more years after that to hang around and suck up oxygen tht would otherwise be going to others, so, no, you won't hear me say anything about how crappy my game was alst night.

Now, if you don't believe it's about participation at HS, I invite you to call Mary Stuckhoff. I have her number right here if you need it. How about Diane Kolb, the softball rules committee member from our region. She lives just down the street, I'll take my cordless and you can talk to her, won't cost you a thing.

Too bad your program doesn't want kids to participate. Just because it's about participation doesn't mean it can't be about playing hard and winning.

This is snipped from the bottom of the softball news release. (Bold italics are mine and added so maybe they will slip through.)

"Softball is the fourth-most popular sport among girls at the high school level with 369,094 participants during the 2005-06 season, according to the High School Athletics Participation Survey conducted by the NFHS. It also ranks third in school sponsorship for girls across the nation with 14,710 schools."

Originally Posted by Bandit

I can't believe bkbjones stated "NFHS is about participation". Last time I checked most high schools have either if not both: "try-outs" &/or "cuts". Participation rules are for the local "rec" league, they don't "try-out" or have "cuts".

Don't think or believe that by this comment that I think there is not a places for the local rec league. I have umpired and coached softball at all levels. At the highschool field and the local park. These is a place and a need for both. There are some that just need to know where the line for both is drawn. My personal opinion is that by bkbjones comment is that he one of those that needs to learn where that line is, or at least where and which fields the different games are being played on.

I just hope I never see any posts about how bad bkbjones last night HS game was or how long it took to get threw the terrible pitching his last nights HS game provided. Because he did indeed state HS ball is about "participation".