Asa 6(fp).7.b

[SRW]

Bases empty. 2-2 count. Pitch comes in, PU calls ball. F2 reacts, thinks it's a strike, and throws down to F3. BU calls Dead Ball, Illegal Pitch, and sends the BR to 1B on a walk.

How many times have you had this happen to you? Happened to me on Father's Day. I was the BU. First time in 4 years.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Bases empty. 2-2 count. Pitch comes in, PU calls ball. F2 reacts, thinks it's a strike, and throws down to F3. BU calls Dead Ball, Illegal Pitch, and sends the BR to 1B on a walk.

How many times have you had this happen to you? Happened to me on Father's Day. I was the BU. First time in 4 years.

I'm not a big fan of enforcing this rule as an absolute. It is meant to avoid a delay in the game. I think umpires should be a bit more judicious with the application of this rule.

Calling a ball is the correct call, but it is not an IP.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm not a big fan of enforcing this rule as an absolute. It is meant to avoid a delay in the game. I think umpires should be a bit more judicious with the application of this rule.

Calling a ball is the correct call, but it is not an IP.

Speaking for you, am I to assume you meant that, in your opinion, it shouldn't be an IP? Because obviously by rule it is classified as an IP...

[Ed Maeder]

In slow pitch it is an additional ball awarded to the batter. In fast pitch it is an illegal pitch. I might have considered the situation in this case. Rule book correct, game situation wrong.

[BuggBob]

I think you need to have a game temperament with this call. If it is during a tournament or championship play it must be a ball and IP. I have called this during tournaments and for NFHS games. However if this is a rec league game it could be a ball (depends on how good or bad the coaches have been in the game so far).

[greymule]

I hate this rule.

It's an illegal pitch, but since it doesn't apply with runners on, it's just a ball.

Note: The rule excludes "an attempted put out made by the catcher." There's my loophole.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

Speaking for you, am I to assume you meant that, in your opinion, it shouldn't be an IP? Because obviously by rule it is classified as an IP...

You are correct, in rule 6 it is, but it is not noted as such in rule 7.5.F as an IP (FP) is coverd in 7.5.C. There is no reason for it to be an IP since the worse case scenario of the violation is a ball on the batter.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are correct, in rule 6 it is, but it is not noted as such in rule 7.5.F as an IP (FP) is coverd in 7.5.C. There is no reason for it to be an IP since the worse case scenario of the violation is a ball on the batter.

So...propose a rule change?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

So...propose a rule change?

Don't think they will consider it. It's covered, actually "over covered" with no negative aspect to not making a change, so they will just leave it alone.

[wadeintothem]

If you dont have a good excuse for not enforcing it (say batter drew the throw by running), you HAVE to enforce it (at any real game.)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

If you dont have a good excuse for not enforcing it (say batter drew the throw by running), you HAVE to enforce it (at any real game.)

Batter attempts to check on a pitch in the dirt. Catcher thinking it was a swing for 3rd strike whips the ball to F3 for the put out.

Remember the scenario we threw around last year? I believe the play went something like: the catcher chasing down a wild pitch/passed ball with no runners on base, picks up the ball and throws it to F3 (who is actually the closest defender) to relay it to the pitcher. Technically, a ball should be called on the batter. Intelligently, it should be ignored.

I am not advocating not making the call, but using a little common sense. As previously stated, the purpose of the rule is to not delay the game, not a "gotcha" on the catcher.

[IamMatt]

SRW, since you made the call,

1) Did you consider the exception for the catcher attempting a put out before making the call?
2) Did the defensive coach bring this exception up when you made the call?
3) If either of the above is yes, what was the reason for not considering that exception valid and not making the call?

I suspect I know the reason, but I would like to hear your (and other umps') reasoning.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IamMatt

1) Did you consider the exception for the catcher attempting a put out before making the call?

There was no attempted put-out by F2. My partner called a ball, and F2 threw to F3. How is that an attempted put-out?

Originally Posted by IamMatt

2) Did the defensive coach bring this exception up when you made the call?

Nope. He asked me what I just did, so I explained it. I can't say that he was happy about it...

Originally Posted by IamMatt

3) If either of the above is yes, what was the reason for not considering that exception valid and not making the call?

There is no exception to come into play here.

[IamMatt]

Thanks. I figured the only reason for F2 to throw to 1B would be if she thought there was (or was unsure if there was) a D3K call. Just curious if the F2's throw could have been a legitmate attempt to prevent BR from getting to 1B on a mistaken D3K. I know the OP didn't say F2 failed to catch the pitch, but I couldn't think of any reason she would throw to 1B unless she thought there was a possibility of a D3K call.

Of course if the Batter heard "Ball" and F2 didn't, and F2 thought it might be a D3K call, the Batter would have been right around the plate and F2 would/should have gone for a tag instead of throwing to 1B. I am guessing if F2 had tagged the Batter then returned the ball to F1 you would not have made the same call?

Did anyone explain why she threw down to 1B?

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IamMatt

Thanks. I figured the only reason for F2 to throw to 1B would be if she thought there was (or was unsure if there was) a D3K call.

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Did anyone explain why she threw down to 1B?

IMO, she threw down because she thought it was K3, and was throwing around the horn in celebration.