Umpire for 42 years...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

...His answer is what kinda threw me off. "he's allowed to take him out." He said it really slow like he wasn't sure of the rule.

But, he is allowed, so long as the slide itself is legal. (toward the base, not cleats high... that sort of thing.)

[Agreen_14]

I'll try to explain the slide a little better... R1 took a wide angle to second and at the last second slid into the inside of the bag, cleats high but not too high and slid through the bag with his right knee up. R1 was clearly not going to make the base safely and did what he could to bust up the SS from making the throw... So I guess now after rethinking the whole situation it was partially intentional. It was definitely hardball legal, I'm not sure about Church Men's softball. He could've easily broke the SS's leg.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

I'll try to explain the slide a little better... R1 took a wide angle to second and at the last second slid into the inside of the bag, cleats high but not too high and slid through the bag with his right knee up. R1 was clearly not going to make the base safely and did what he could to bust up the SS from making the throw... So I guess now after rethinking the whole situation it was partially intentional. It was definitely hardball legal, I'm not sure about Church Men's softball. He could've easily broke the SS's leg.

Again, it's a horses*** play, but it could be legal, despite the fact that it's a church league.

[Agreen_14]

Oh yeah, the reason I was out of position to make the tag was because the overthrow to 1st hit off the fence and rolled toward the plate, the pitcher was coming in to back up a possible play at the plate. I started to go toward the ball and at the last second backpeddled to the front of the plate. It was a good play and the runner was tagged out before touching the plate... The ump was in the proper position to make the call at 1st. R1 on 2B moved all the way to 3rd by the time the ball was overthrown and he did not slow down rounding 3rd to come home. Where should the umpire have moved to get in the next proper position to make a call at home?

Trust me, this ump taught me a valuable lesson about hustling. Nothings worse than seeing an umpire trot around. I know the jobs tough and he was an ol' timer and all, but I will make sure that hustling is my top priority! I don't wear the number 14 for nothing.. Charlie Hustle baby!!!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

I'll try to explain the slide a little better... R1 took a wide angle to second and at the last second slid into the inside of the bag, cleats high but not too high and slid through the bag with his right knee up. R1 was clearly not going to make the base safely and did what he could to bust up the SS from making the throw... So I guess now after rethinking the whole situation it was partially intentional. It was definitely hardball legal, I'm not sure about Church Men's softball. He could've easily broke the SS's leg.

Obviously HTBT, but here are a couple of things about a play like this...

1) Was the runner already retired before he reached the vacinity of the base? A runner is always allowed to put maximum effort to get to his base as quickly as possible, and to slide into that base. He is not required to go "poof" once he is retired, and he is not required to assume the defense will make the play even if it seems like he is a dead duck. However, if he was retired 15 feet from the bag, and he still tried a "take-out" slide, then you might have something.

2) ASA does not provide different base-running rules for the different levels of play (with the obvious exceptions of things like 10U B and no stealing in certain classes of slowpitch).

3) If the runner had remained on his feet and crashed into the defender, you would also have something, but as an umpire, you can't call the game based on what you think "should be fair" - you have to call it by the rules. And, a legal slide is ALWAYS legal contact.

[Agreen_14]

I got ya dakota. The play was closer than 15 feet. I'd say F6 caught the ball-tagged base-starts throw-runner slides. You see F6 also came off the bag going forward with his throw to 1st which put him in a bad situation, but, the runner, I do not think had to slide.

[Agreen_14]

Guys I've seen things in this league while playing, and now that I know the rules a lot better, the players get away with a lot. Take for instance last Fall, we played this team that had a 3rd baseman that was fearless. If there was a play at 3rd with the ball coming in from the outfield, he would protect the base like a goal to try to prevent you from getting to the bag. The ball was clearly not in his hands yet and he's down on both knees blocking the bag so that he could catch the ball and make a tag. The runners only option was to either run around him, slide through him, or jump over him... This is OBS right? If not, then I definitely need to reread the book.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

If there was a play at 3rd with the ball coming in from the outfield, he would protect the base like a goal to try to prevent you from getting to the bag. The ball was clearly not in his hands yet and he's down on both knees blocking the bag so that he could catch the ball and make a tag. The runners only option was to either run around him, slide through him, or jump over him... This is OBS right? If not, then I definitely need to reread the book.

It is probably obstruction... "probably" because blocking the base is not obstruction - impeding the progress of the runner is. Whether or not this was obstruction would depend on where the runner was and what he did.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Agreen_14

I'll try to explain the slide a little better... R1 took a wide angle to second and at the last second slid into the inside of the bag, cleats high but not too high and slid through the bag with his right knee up. R1 was clearly not going to make the base safely and did what he could to bust up the SS from making the throw... So I guess now after rethinking the whole situation it was partially intentional. It was definitely hardball legal, I'm not sure about Church Men's softball. He could've easily broke the SS's leg.

In Beer league softball there is a certain "gentleman's" (term used VERY loosely) code of conduct ie. "Look, we all gotta work in the morning, its for fun, so play nice"

That doesnt make it an ASA rule.

[bkbjones]

OK, I'll run the risk of pi$$ing off even more people who send me e-mails about the way I do things (ie the clock thing...)

If you're going to become a "new" umpire, you have no right to throw anyone under the bus until you have been out there for a while. You'll find out soon enough that sure enough the players do get by with a little bit when there is just one umpire on the field. And, yes, you're not going to be in position to see everything, including swipe tags at second, maybe swipe tags at third, and a potential bobble by the fist baseman when fielding a throw from the 2B on a great stop in short right field.

These, and other, things, don't make you a bad umpire.

Now if you don't see these things because you're not trying/hustling, then yoyu deserve to be thrown under the bus. Otherwise...

OK, going back to my clock-nazi cave now...