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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 04:35pm
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18 years and just when you think you have seen it all....here's the play and something for you to think about. Team A scores with 4.5 seconds left to go up by two. Team B player throws the ball in to a teammate who sees another teamate streaking down the court towards their basket. She fires a pass that hits a defender in the head, richochets up in the air and..............you got it! Goes in the basket. Horn sounds and now you make the call. Assume the defender was outside the three point arc. Game over?
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 04:40pm
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No books in front of me but I would assume...
Score the bucket as a three, reccommend ice and advil to defender and go home....
__________________
"Some guys they just give up living, and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash-up, and they go Racing In The Street." - Springsteen, 1978
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 04:53pm
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Quote:
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 05:03pm
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So the bounce ends the initial try. That is why I made my statement about not having my book open. At first I was sure it is the way you say, then I wasn't ... blah blah blah.
Thanks for setting me straight
__________________
"Some guys they just give up living, and start dying little by little, piece by piece. Some guys come home from work and wash-up, and they go Racing In The Street." - Springsteen, 1978
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 06:22pm
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Just to clarify, NCAA - when does the horn sound? Before or after the ball passes through the net? (And, if after, if this is an NCAA game, why didn't the clock stop?)
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 06:46pm
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help?
Question...
NFHS--isn't this a three? Original pass downcourt was from behind the arc? College guys...why isn't this a three in NCAA..just curious.
__________________
I know God would never give me more than I could handle, I just wish he wouldn't trust me so much.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 06:59pm
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NFHS Rules:
As I understand Rule 4-40-4 (and case play 4.40.4 Situation B), this could be counted as 2 or 3, depending on the "type" of the touch by the defender. If the referee feels that the shot ended when the ball hit the defender (like a shot that is on it's way down), then the ball that subsequently went through the basket would count as 2. If the referee feels that the shot did not end (for instance, the defender was real close to the passer and the richochet merely redirected a ball that was still on it's way up), it would count as a 3. The FED used to require officials to judge whether or not the original attempt was a pass or a try but they took that out a couple years ago (or so). However, it still looks to me as if we have to judge whether or not the try "ended" or was merely deflected. Anyone else interpret this the same (or different)? Z
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 07:21pm
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Quote:
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 07:21pm
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In NCAA, a three-point basket can only be scored on a try. This is not a try, therefore, only 2 points can be scored.
Still waiting on before/after the horn.
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 07:22pm
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I'd also like to point out that, for NCAA/NFHS shot clock states, this is not a try, and the shot clock would not be reset if the ball hit the rim but did not go in the basket.
__________________
"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all."
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 07:34pm
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But in NFHS rules a three can be scored from the result of a pass. And it is still considered a three point attempt if it hits a defender who is standing inside or outside of the 2 point zone. Therefore I've gotta say count the bucket as a 3.
__________________
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups 
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 07:44pm
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Originally posted by rainmaker
I don't think this was a shot before it hit the defender. It sounds as though it really was just a pass, that got deflected by the defender's head. 2 points. That's irrelevant rainmaker: Read Rule 5-2-1 which is clear that even a "thrown ball" (not necessarily a try) counts as 3-points if taken from behind the 3-point line. That's why I was saying that what is relevant is whether the official feels that the shot ended when it hits the defensive player or whether the ball just got "deflected" by the defensive player. Z
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 08:30pm
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A try ends when is certain the throw will be unsuccessful--as per R4-40-4. Case book play 4.40.4SitB is fairly close to this play, only in that play it hit a shoulder instead of a head. The ruling in that play is that the 3-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring- so you can only score 2 points. Just transfer those rulings to this sitch. Unless the defender's head was more than 10 feet in the air when the ball hit it, it's gotta be the end of the original try when it hit the defender's head- and the ball subsequently going into the basket can only count 2 points.
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Thu Dec 16, 2004, 09:07pm
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Quote:
You are correct, but there could be a situation when the ball hits the defenders head when it isn't "10 feet in the air" and count as 3. One of those long desperation "launches" that starts at the hip and then hits the defender who is right in front of the shooter. Yeah, I know..... unlikely as heck, but if you ref long enough.... Z
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