Double swing

[SC Ump]

A local travel club is teaching its players to do a funky swing. On a drag bunt, the left handed batter swings early and allows her follow through to come around her back, with the bat switching behind her back from her right hand to her left hand and then tapping the ball for a bunt. This was done successfully on two occassions in an ASA tounament.

(POE 24 addresses this as illegal for ASA. I do not know if it is or is not legal in other organizations.)

My question is regarding if this is done on the third strike. My understanding of POE 24 is that if it is done (intentionally) with less than two stikes and batters on base, the batter is out and all runners return. If there are two strikes on the batter, would the batter be out on the third strike and then the runner closest to home also be out. It does not specifically state. It does reference a different rule, which I'm not sure if is the proper reference or a typo on the numbering.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

A local travel club is teaching its players to do a funky swing. On a drag bunt, the left handed batter swings early and allows her follow through to come around her back, with the bat switching behind her back from her right hand to her left hand and then tapping the ball for a bunt. This was done successfully on two occassions in an ASA tounament.

(POE 24 addresses this as illegal for ASA. I do not know if it is or is not legal in other organizations.)

My question is regarding if this is done on the third strike. My understanding of POE 24 is that if it is done (intentionally) with less than two stikes and batters on base, the batter is out and all runners return. If there are two strikes on the batter, would the batter be out on the third strike and then the runner closest to home also be out. It does not specifically state. It does reference a different rule, which I'm not sure if is the proper reference or a typo on the numbering.

No, this is not what RS 24 is addressing. This addresses the batter attempting to hit a pitch and accidentally hitting the ball on the backswing.

What you described (and I swear we cover this ad nauseum just recently) is designed to strike the ball on the wrap-around of the bat. The batter is not attempting to strike at the pitch on the initial action.

It is designed to throw off the infielder's timing be getting them to relax after the initial movement of the bat. What you defined is a head game and nothing more.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No, this is not what RS 24 is addressing. This addresses the batter attempting to hit a pitch and accidentally hitting the ball on the backswing.

RS 24-C.2: If a batter swings at and misses the pitched ball, but intentionally hits it on the second swing, the ball is dead, and all runners must return to the base they occupied prior to the pitch.

Does that not directly address the action in the OP?

WMB

[mick]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

RS 24-C.2: If a batter swings at and misses the pitched ball, but intentionally hits it on the second swing, the ball is dead, and all runners must return to the base they occupied prior to the pitch.

Does that not directly address the action in the OP?

WMB

Mike's point was that the batter did not swing at the pitched ball.
That sounds right to me.

[wadeintothem]

I gotta stand by ole WMB on this one..

This does not seem to me to be a grey area in the rules.. and in fact is exactly the type of batting ASA has ruled against.

If that pitcher throws and you swing.. thats a swing and attempt to hit the ball for rules purposes. I dont care that the swing was not made to actually hit the ball.

All kinds of swings are made without intent to actually hit the ball.. late swings to protect runners, swings at pitches in the dirt to try to advance on D3K, etc .. and this double swing.

This is a swing.

RS24 applies.

[mick]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I gotta stand by ole WMB on this one..

This does not seem to me to be a grey area in the rules.. and in fact is exactly the type of batting ASA has ruled against.

If that pitcher throws and you swing.. thats a swing and attempt to hit the ball for rules purposes. I dont care that the swing was not made to actually hit the ball.

All kinds of swings are made without intent to actually hit the ball.. late swings to protect runners, swings at pitches in the dirt to try to advance on D3K, etc .. and this double swing.

This is a swing.

RS24 applies.

For discussion purposes, WMB asks if RS 24 applies.
You state RS 24 applies as fact.
Do you know something that WMB does not?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

I gotta stand by ole WMB on this one..

This does not seem to me to be a grey area in the rules.. and in fact is exactly the type of batting ASA has ruled against.

If that pitcher throws and you swing.. thats a swing and attempt to hit the ball for rules purposes. I dont care that the swing was not made to actually hit the ball.

All kinds of swings are made without intent to actually hit the ball.. late swings to protect runners, swings at pitches in the dirt to try to advance on D3K, etc .. and this double swing.

This is a swing.

RS24 applies.

So if a batter twirls a bat while the pitcher is releasing the ball, that is a swing and you are going to call a strike on a pitch that is outside the zone for that reason?

Good luck, please stay away from my tournaments.

BTW, I have seen nothing from ASA on this issue in the five years that I have been aware of this "California Drag Bunt" has been seen on the field.