Is a Swing a Strike?

[Shmuelg]

Men's FP, although this works with the women as well, and even in baseball.

Count is 1 and 2, no outs, no one on base.

Pitcher throws a helium-ball (very very high), impossible to hit or catch, and it goes to the backstop. Batter, being shrewd, swings when he sees this. He didn't "aim" at the ball, it was obvious that he was swinging to get the "dropped third strike" situation. He then runs to first, and gets there safely. PU (I was FU) says it's a ball, and calls the batter back. Batter doesn't like this, and says he swung. Defense does NOT appeal the call, btw. I supported the PU, based on the understanding of the rules that a strike is to be called when the "batter strikes at the ball", and he didn't strike AT THE BALL. That's why it's called strike, Maude.

OK, what do you guys say to this? Good call? Bad call?

Shmuel

[WestMichBlue]

Smart batter. Sorry, but can't say the same for the Blue Team.

Bad call.

WMB

[DaveASA/FED]

I think FED does have a provision that the ball has to be hittable for it to be considered a strike for D3K but ASA doesn't have that. So if ASA rules the batter gets 1st on a cheap one!

[Shmuelg]

We use ISF rules, and they state:

" A STRIKE IS CALLED BY THE UMPIRE
. . .
b. (FP ONLY) For each legally pitched ball struck at and missed by the batter. "

It seems to me that he must make an effort to hit the ball. Hittable or not is not the issue here. The issue here is if he made a "good faith" effort to hit the ball. He did not.

Think about it like this: Pitcher pitches. The batter is in the box, and is kinda like swinging the bat back and forth in a pendulum fashion, the way many do when waiting for a pitch. He lets another pendulum go while the pitch is coming in, obviously not trying to hit the ball, but just as a habit. Kind of scratching your head, or something like that. Should you call a strike at this as well?

[WestMichBlue]

"It seems to me that he must make an effort to hit the ball"

Seems to me that you are traveling down a very slippery slope here. What do you call on a waaaaaay wide pitch that the batter couldn't hit with a 40" bat, but still swings at. How many pitches in the dirt have you seen that are swung at and the bat is nowhere near the ball?

So we have a high pitch that is swung at and missed. How high? How high was the swing? By how much did the bat miss the ball? THEN - by how much lower can the pitch be and the batter will swing at it and you'll call it a strike? One foot lower? Two foot lower? 6.4983 feet lower?


BTW - the FED rule relates to a dropped pitch that must be hittable for the batter to swing. If it comes near the plate, the batter can swing, and yes, be called for the 3rd strike and she can run. If the ball will not reach the plate, then it is called a ball whether the batter swings or not.

WMB

[Bagman62]

My thought is if the count were 3 balls and 0 strikes and the batter swings in hopes of getting a hitable pitch, I will call a strike. In this situation my decision would be if the batter swings prior to the ball passing the catcher I have a strike, if the ball passes the catcher I have a ball. JMHO

[IRISHMAFIA]

Maybe I'm missing something or the wording isn't correct.

I am reading this as batter swings as he realizes the ball went to the backstop. Seems to me that might be just a bit late to call it a strike.

[emaxos]

I believe it is more like he swings when he realizes the ball will go to the backstop.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, if you are going to rule a strike just because the batter moves the bat accross the plate, you better start calling it a strike when there is an outside pitch and the batter releases the bat from the ready position and it swings down in front of their body past the plate.

Call that one, and every player and coach will tell you that the batter didn't attempt to actually hit the ball, so it cannot be a strike.

[Shmuelg]

West,

You have a point with your scenarios, but we must realize that the umpire must apply judgement in these cases.

If we have, say, a rookie player who is fooled by an outside drop ball that is waaaay outside, and the ump things the batter wanted to hit the ball, then I would call that a strike. The batter indeed "struck" at the ball.

However, IMO, if a ball is close, and the batter is swinging to "protect" a steal of second, it would be just too close for me to actually call a ball. Even though it's clear, or rather almost clear, that the batter is just swinging to protect the runner. Judgement again, in this case.

FYI folks, I asked this in the baseball section as well, and there too, we have mixed responses.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Bagman62
... snip ... if the batter swings prior to the ball passing the catcher I have a strike, if the ball passes the catcher I have a ball. JMHO

I would have to go along with something like this, IOW if the "swing" is long past the opportunity to hit it, an obviously fake swing is not a strike.