A bad sitiuation

[tribefan1952]

I wasn't there. The losing pitcher's father caught up to me at work the next day and asked me what I thought...

JV game. 2 out. Bottom of 7th. R1 on 1st. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump, working alone, says batter's OUT! Players leave the field. Catcher rolls ball back to pitcher's mound. Batter runs to 1st.

Teams line up to shake hands. Home coach argues ruling. Ump realizes she screwed up. Allows batter to go to 1st. Game resumes (after plenty of discussion). Naturally, the home team scores a couple runs and wins the game.

The pitcher's father was pretty cool about it. He just wanted my opinion. I told him that once the batter is called out, she's out. This ruling can't be changed.

Is it the catcher's job to go ahead and make the play after the ump made the wrong call?

[JEL]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

I wasn't there. The losing pitcher's father caught up to me at work the next day and asked me what I thought...

JV game. 2 out. Bottom of 7th. R1 on 1st. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump, working alone, says batter's OUT! Players leave the field. Catcher rolls ball back to pitcher's mound. Batter runs to 1st.

Teams line up to shake hands. Home coach argues ruling. Ump realizes she screwed up. Allows batter to go to 1st. Game resumes (after plenty of discussion). Naturally, the home team scores a couple runs and wins the game.

The pitcher's father was pretty cool about it. He just wanted my opinion. I told him that once the batter is called out, she's out. This ruling can't be changed.

Is it the catcher's job to go ahead and make the play after the ump made the wrong call?

> I told him that once the batter is called out, she's out. This ruling can't be changed.<

Well, yes it could be be changed. The umpire does have authority to "rectify" a call such as this, but.........

>Home coach argues ruling.<

Well duh, I would too!

but.......

> Players leave the field<
>Teams line up to shake hands. Home coach argues ruling.<

Timing a bit off, defense has left the field, game over.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JEL

> Players leave the field<
>Teams line up to shake hands. Home coach argues ruling.<

Timing a bit off, defense has left the field, game over.

And that would be relevant if this were an appeal play. It is not. It is a rules interpretaion/misapplication protest. If home coach was continuing a discussion with the umpire on the field, nothing is over until it is over.

The offense was smart enough to know the game situation and react accordingly in spite of the umpire's error, the defense was not.

This is a tough one. If protested and it was upheld, the game resumes at the point at which the error was made. Since you cannot just put the ball on the ground behind the plate, the batter and the box an say, "GO", I'm assuming the "play" with which the game would resume would be the pitch.

BTW, as far as once the umpire calls the batter out, she's out, that just isn't true. An umpire can change a call upon review of the information available.

[tribefan1952]

Thanks for the replies. When I made the comment about not changing the "out" call once it was made, I guess I only meant situations where the defense clearly reacted to the call. I have changed "out" calls in the past when I later discovered the ball had been dropped or if my partner revealed something to me that I hadn't seen. No problem. The goal should be to get it right. My concern is when the incorrect call influences the rest of the play.

Maybe the comment about the offense being alert while the defense was busy celebrating is right on the mark. After all, there is no penalty for tagging a runner who has already been called out, just to make sure she's really out.

Everyone learned a lesson in that little fiasco, including the ump.

[blueump]

I agree the ump booted this call,

but FED rule 8-2-4

The batter is out when "the BR fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after...a dropped third strike"

I think I saw her enter the team area, she's out.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

JV game. 2 out. Bottom of 7th. R1 on 1st. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump, working alone, says batter's OUT!

Is it the catcher's job to go ahead and make the play after the ump made the wrong call?

A protest would not be possible in this case. The umpire called the batter out, a judgment call. Right or wrong is not relevant. The minute the umpire declares the batter out, she is out.

We have all made calls that were wrong. We have all made calls that coaches, players and spectators disagree with. They don't continue play if they disagree. The bottom line is the batter was called out. No reason to penalize the defense, who clearly heard the umpire kill any needed tag or throw down to first by calling the batter out.

She was called out - right or wrong, everyone has to live with call. This is not able to be appealed, this is not a re-do, the runner does not get first base. Game over.

[MNBlue]

I don't see it as a bad judgement call, I see it as a kicked ruling. She clearly called the batter out when, in fact, she wasn't out. That is correctable.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

I don't see it as a bad judgement call, I see it as a kicked ruling. She clearly called the batter out when, in fact, she wasn't out. That is correctable.

You can't have a do-over. You can't simply award the BR first base. You've clearly taken the advantage away from the defense by declaring her out...they have no need to tag her.

This is NOT a correctable situation! You've killed the play when you called her out. Its the same as if you called a fair ball foul. Doesn't matter where is really was, you called it foul, the play is DEAD!

[sargee7]

Originally Posted by tribefan1952

I wasn't there. The losing pitcher's father caught up to me at work the next day and asked me what I thought...

JV game. 2 out. Bottom of 7th. R1 on 1st. Dropped 3rd strike. Ump, working alone, says batter's OUT! Players leave the field. Catcher rolls ball back to pitcher's mound. Batter runs to 1st.

Teams line up to shake hands. Home coach argues ruling. Ump realizes she screwed up. Allows batter to go to 1st. Game resumes (after plenty of discussion). Naturally, the home team scores a couple runs and wins the game.

The pitcher's father was pretty cool about it. He just wanted my opinion. I told him that once the batter is called out, she's out. This ruling can't be changed.

Is it the catcher's job to go ahead and make the play after the ump made the wrong call?

Players lining up to shake hands? Sounds like all of the defense may have left fair territory. Game over.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by blueump

I agree the ump booted this call,

but FED rule 8-2-4

The batter is out when "the BR fails to advance to first base and enters the team area after...a dropped third strike"

I think I saw her enter the team area, she's out.

Really? The OP says she went straight to first base. Where do you think the team area is?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by sargee7

Players lining up to shake hands? Sounds like all of the defense may have left fair territory. Game over.

You are confusing an appeal play with a rules misinterpretation. The offense did what they were supposed to. The defense can't rush off the field to prevent the offense's coach from discussing a misinterpretation of a rule.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You are confusing an appeal play with a rules misinterpretation. The offense did what they were supposed to. The defense can't rush off the field to prevent the offense's coach from discussing a misinterpretation of a rule.

You are pretty eager to correct everyone's posts...you haven't answered the question though. I'm sure YOU would have awarded the BR first base?

Oh, but then again, you would have never made the mistake in the first place!

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by blueump

You can't have a do-over. You can't simply award the BR first base. You've clearly taken the advantage away from the defense by declaring her out...they have no need to tag her.

This is NOT a correctable situation! You've killed the play when you called her out. Its the same as if you called a fair ball foul. Doesn't matter where is really was, you called it foul, the play is DEAD!

I disagree. It wasn't the same as miss judging fair/foul. PU called the batter out when she had the right to advance. PU took away the batter's right to advance. BR knew better, she kept going. Defense should have kept playing as well. Put the BR on first and continue the game.

[blueump]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

PU took away the batter's right to advance.

Took away the defense's right to make the play as well. Why reward the offense?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by blueump

Took away the defense's right to make the play as well. Why reward the offense?

Got to fix it somehow. BR was the only one who did what she was suppose to do by running to first. PU made a mistake by calling her out. Defense made a mistake by not making a play on the BR when they should have known they had to make a play. Why penalize the only person who did what was suppose to be done?