The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 04, 2007, 09:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Chopped Ball

How many of you call a batter out for chopping the ball in SP? Does it matter how hard they chop the ball?
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 05, 2007, 09:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
How many of you call a batter out for chopping the ball in SP? Does it matter how hard they chop the ball?
In my 20 years of softball, I've never seen a chopped ball in SP, or FP for that matter.

Only because I am unsure of the training you've had, I need to ask if you know what a chopped ball is? It is not slapping down, or simply swinging down. As defined in every clinic and school I have attended in all these years, it is defined as the batter literally chopping down as if yielding an axe toward the ground.

Unless you are playing on a paved surface, I don't believe chopping down on a softball is not likely to produce any extraordinary hit or advantage to the offense.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 05, 2007, 03:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Yes, I know what a chopped ball is.

In my 5 years I've seen it 3 times and I've called in once. I consider a chopped ball to be very much what you've described. The bat being swung in a axe like fashion. The bat when it makes contact with the ball is above the ball and is driving the ball straight down into the ground. Hit right up the middle and with enough force it can be effective. Last night I saw it done twice and both times it almost took out the pitcher. And hitting it on a dirt surface can give the offense an advantage. The ball can get a wicked bounce. Its hard to defend. Both times it was hit for a base hit.
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 05, 2007, 03:52pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 573
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
In my 5 years I've seen it 3 times and I've called in once. I consider a chopped ball to be very much what you've described. The bat being swung in a axe like fashion. The bat when it makes contact with the ball is above the ball and is driving the ball straight down into the ground. Hit right up the middle and with enough force it can be effective. Last night I saw it done twice and both times it almost took out the pitcher. And hitting it on a dirt surface can give the offense an advantage. The ball can get a wicked bounce. Its hard to defend. Both times it was hit for a base hit.
In all the years that I did call SP, I saw it a few times.
I only called it once, when the local Moose bragged to the catcher that he was "fixin to chop one down just to prove that he was that good."

I couldn't stand it,
On one like that you just have to stick it in and turn that knife.
__________________
ISF
ASA/USA Elite
NIF
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 05, 2007, 05:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
In my 5 years I've seen it 3 times and I've called in once. I consider a chopped ball to be very much what you've described. The bat being swung in a axe like fashion. The bat when it makes contact with the ball is above the ball and is driving the ball straight down into the ground. Hit right up the middle and with enough force it can be effective. Last night I saw it done twice and both times it almost took out the pitcher. And hitting it on a dirt surface can give the offense an advantage. The ball can get a wicked bounce. Its hard to defend. Both times it was hit for a base hit.
I'm sorry, but I would have to see this. How do you chop a ball straight down and it nearly take out a pitcher? I have to think we are talking about two different actions.

When I'm talking chop, I'm talking about the batter bringing the bat directly over his/her head and chopping straight down (perpendicular to the ground) and driving the ball into the ground or plate. In all the games I've worked, I have never seen this done at any level, major to D ball.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 05, 2007, 07:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
A chop does not require it to be straight down

A ball hit perpendicular to the ground wont get the bounce I'm talking about and have witnessed. A chop does not require action that is perpendicular. When chopping down a tree, the axe is swung at an angle. The definition of a chopped ball does not require it to be perpendicular. Your description is very similar to what I've seen and I am talking about. The only exception is that the ball is not hit directly ( at a 90 degree angle to the ground) down.

Imagine a pitch that is about 6 feet off of the ground in front of the plate. The batter brings the bat over his/her head and on top of the ball and drives it down at an angle. That is, in my opinion, a chop. In all the clinics and camps I've been to I've never had a a chopped ball described or illustrated. It seems fairly obvious to me what a chop is.
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association

Last edited by rwest; Sat May 05, 2007 at 07:53pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 06, 2007, 10:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
A ball hit perpendicular to the ground wont get the bounce I'm talking about and have witnessed. A chop does not require action that is perpendicular. When chopping down a tree, the axe is swung at an angle. The definition of a chopped ball does not require it to be perpendicular. Your description is very similar to what I've seen and I am talking about. The only exception is that the ball is not hit directly ( at a 90 degree angle to the ground) down.

Imagine a pitch that is about 6 feet off of the ground in front of the plate. The batter brings the bat over his/her head and on top of the ball and drives it down at an angle. That is, in my opinion, a chop. In all the clinics and camps I've been to I've never had a a chopped ball described or illustrated. It seems fairly obvious to me what a chop is.
Ever chop wood that didn't involve taking down a tree? That log would be horizontal to the ground, unlike a tree which is vertical. BTW, when felling a tree, not all swings are in a downward motion.

From all the clinics and schools I have attended, what you are describing in not considered a "chopped ball" for the purpose of applying 7.6.H.

Now, I will not argue that it may not be the same way you have been instructed. Many of us who have been around a while often get different takes from different instructors. It is also possible that the feeling of the NUS has changed, but if so, I've never seen nor heard of any indication of such.

A slapper (yes, there are slappers in SP) often brings the bat downward at an angle, but you do not call that a chop, do you?

Our differences are based on perception and teachings of a chop. The original issue with a "chop" came from the little ball game. Go here for information:

http://www.answers.com/topic/baltimore-chop

In today's game, with the bats, balls and field conditions, a "chopped" ball would be of little to no use in any of the levels I have worked. BTW, slappers in FP often use this technique to try and bounce a ball over an oncoming F5's head.

I see a chopped ball as no more dangerous to anyone on the field than any other sharply hit ball.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2007, 08:53am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
I'm sorry, but I would have to see this. How do you chop a ball straight down and it nearly take out a pitcher? I have to think we are talking about two different actions.

When I'm talking chop, I'm talking about the batter bringing the bat directly over his/her head and chopping straight down (perpendicular to the ground) and driving the ball into the ground or plate. In all the games I've worked, I have never seen this done at any level, major to D ball.
Mike - think like a tennis player hitting an extreme drop shot. Bat about 80 degrees to the pitch, hit with tremendous backspin. And yes - I did it once and got away with it. Mine went about 10 feet and rolled back toward the catcher.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2007, 09:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
No backspin on these hits

There was no backspin. The ball was driven down hard into the ground within maybe 10 feet of the pitcher and came up sharply close to his head. The pitcher complained about it after the second time. Now, I was the BU so I didn't call the batter out. I thought that was my PU's responsibility. Should a BU call a batter out on a chopped ball?

To diffuse a touchy situation I warned the batter about it. My PU said she thought she should have called the batter out on the first chop but didn't and decided not to on the 2nd chop because she had let it go earlier. Which I don't have a problem with that. The idea being that you don't call something late in a close and heated game that you let go earlier. We should have called it in the first inning, in my opinion.

This was the first game of a double header and I was the PU for the next game. I informed both teams that I would call the chopped ball. When the batter who chopped the ball in the first game came up to bat, he didn't chop it and got a double, if I remember correctly.
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Thrown Elbow - Live Ball vs. Dead Ball rfp Basketball 19 Sun Nov 12, 2006 05:15am
Ball, ball, ball, ball, ball, ball, ball, ball...: The Cover rainmaker Basketball 3 Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:12am
Screaming "BALL BALL BALL" during girls games drinkeii Basketball 90 Mon Jul 11, 2005 09:53am
Legally putting ball in play, dead ball violations BJ Moose Baseball 20 Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:09am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1