Hit or error?

[Zwetschke]

There is a runner on second base. The batter hits a grounder to the shortstop. The shortstop fields the ball cleanly and throws the ball to second base. Batter reaches first safely and runner that was at second advances to third. No physical errors, but no outs are made. How do you score the at bat?

[mcrowder]

Hit. . . .. .

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Zwetschke

There is a runner on second base. The batter hits a grounder to the shortstop. The shortstop fields the ball cleanly and throws the ball to second base. Batter reaches first safely and runner that was at second advances to third. No physical errors, but no outs are made. How do you score the at bat?

Fielder's inappropriate choice.

[justmom]

I'm with Dakota on this one. Score it a fielder's choice.

[IamMatt]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Fielder's inappropriate choice.

I laughed out loud at that one!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by justmom

I'm with Dakota on this one. Score it a fielder's choice.

FC must be accompanied by either an out or an error. No out or error - no FC.

[Skahtboi]

It is, quite simply and as mcrowder has already stated, a hit.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

FC must be accompanied by either an out or an error. No out or error - no FC.

I apologize - I did something here that trolls do, and I hate it when they do.

Generalized statement that applies perfectly to this situation ... but not to ALL situations. It IS possible to get an FC that doesn't result in an out or an error. Just not in anything resembling THIS scenario.

[Dakota]

At least IamMatt got my joke... Thanks, Matt.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

FC must be accompanied by either an out or an error. No out or error - no FC.

I disagree mcrowder. If the BR should have / could have been retired by a routine throw to first, but the fielder made the choice (however inappropriate) to make a play on another runner, it's a FC -- even if they didn't commit an error or get an out.

Now of course, if it's the "HS mom scorer" all bets are off. The batter gets a hit, the runner gets a stolen base, and if we can find an RBI, we'll throw that in there, too.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by argodad

I disagree mcrowder. If the BR should have / could have been retired by a routine throw to first, but the fielder made the choice (however inappropriate) to make a play on another runner, it's a FC -- even if they didn't commit an error or get an out.

Now of course, if it's the "HS mom scorer" all bets are off. The batter gets a hit, the runner gets a stolen base, and if we can find an RBI, we'll throw that in there, too.

Throwing to a base where no play is developing is not making a play on another runner. This is no different from a fielder tossing it to another fielder so that other fielder can throw to first. This one is a hit.

If the fielder had thrown to 3rd, it would be an FC.

[greymule]

This supports why the scoring rules should have been revised long ago. Anyone who knows the game can cite play after play in which batters are unfairly credited with hits or fielders unfairly charged (or not charged) with errors.

Why should an outfielder be charged with an error for a superb throw that happens to hit a sliding runner and go out of play? The rationale is that every base has to be accounted for, but there are many plays in which bases aren't accounted for in the scorebook. Why should a shortstop who steps on 2B for the front end of a possible double play not be charged with an error if he has all the time in the world and fails to complete an easy throw to 1B? If the idea is that the numbers/stats should at least to some degree reflect quality of play, then the scoring rules are pretty bad.

The same goes for wins and losses for pitchers, and earned runs as well.

More than 40 years ago, in a state championship game, I bunted with a runner on 2B. It was a rather hard bunt toward 3B, so F5 began to charge it, but F1 managed to scrambled over and pick it up. F1 could have thrown to 1B to get me, but instead ran toward 3B, waiting for an opportunity to throw to F5, who was retreating to 3B for a possible play on the runner. F1 ended up simply holding the ball while the runner and I made it safely to our bases.

The scorer originally scored it a FC, but I convinced him that it was a hit. I didn't even know whether that was right, but naturally I made the case for it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Zwetschke

There is a runner on second base. The batter hits a grounder to the shortstop. The shortstop fields the ball cleanly and throws the ball to second base. Batter reaches first safely and runner that was at second advances to third. No physical errors, but no outs are made. How do you score the at bat?

No outs, no runs.

[JefferMC]

Until a couple of weeks ago, I would have scored it a hit. I've changed my mind, in part based upon the following:

From the NCAA scoring rules:

Section 7. A fielder's choice is credited in the following situations:

a. To a batter:
...
2. When a ball is put in play and the lead runner is safe but the batter would have been out had the initial play gone to first base.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dakota

At least IamMatt got my joke... Thanks, Matt.

Oh...I got the joke. I just chose to ignore it!