Bounced 3rd K

[Bluefoot]

NFHS Game in CT on Wednesday. Two outs, R1 on 3B. 0-2 count on B2. Next pitch bounces in dirt in front of plate, as over-anxious B2 swings and misses. F2 makes a nice scoop of bounced pitch. PU signals and calls 'Strike three.' F2 tosses ball back toward pitching circle, defensive team heads into first base dugout, B2 heads back toward, but not into third base dugout. Head coach calls quietly over to B2, 'run to first!', and tells R1 to 'go touch home'. Runners do as instructed. BR2 gets to 1B and first base coach tells her to keep running. Defense comes out of dugout, not knowing what is going on. Finally one defensive player sort of realizes what is going on and picks up the ball and tags BR2 for the third out, just before she rounds the bases and scores another run. Defensive coach comes out to ask PU what happened. PU has to explain to her why the bounced third K is considered a dropped 3K, and the batter must be put out by the defense.

Ever see one like that?

[wadeintothem]

nope, but I would like too

Heads up coaching.

[U of M Sam]

Never saw one as you describe.
I like to call pitch described as a "non caught strike three" since catcher did not "drop" the pitch as described in your OP
IMO the "non caught strike 3" is a better description than a "dropped strike 3".

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by U of M Sam

Never saw one as you describe.
I like to call pitch described as a "non caught strike three" since catcher did not "drop" the pitch as described in your OP
IMO the "non caught strike 3" is a better description than a "dropped strike 3".

How about uncaught third strike. That's what I've always called it.

And I have had that play, except the bases were loaded. This was in 2003, in my very first tournament game for pay in Seattle. Two runs scored, and one defensive player threw the ball out of play while trying to get it quickly to the third baseman (or whoever was running toward third base) for the tag. Since the last two runners were between 2nd and 3rd at the time of the throw, they were both awarded home.

[CecilOne]

I'm sure we could get all the TV commentators and LL coaches to say uncaught instead of dropped. That has been the problem for years, and with euphemisms for many rules.
I had that happen last week, although no one wastrying to score and the defense coach immediately told the catcher to make the play.
To the catcher's credit, did as she was told, but still didn't know why. After, she said to me taht she caught it, so I explained hitting the ground first.

[mcrowder]

Probably see that at the beginning of the 12U season at least once a year.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Or we can just call it what ASA does, "Third Strike Rule".

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Or we can just call it what ASA does, "Third Strike Rule".

Why must you always complicate things????

[tcannizzo]

The correct call is simply "Strike". Anything else is non-standard.

[Bluefoot]

While the actual play was happening, and after he had given his two runners their directive, and they were off and running, the offensive coach asked the PU if he "had the play". The PU said that he did, and stood and watched carefully from the plate as the BR2 circled the bases. He was on the ball, and I don't think many blues around here would have got it right. Complicating thinkg further on the play, the BR2 had taken off her helmet while walking back after the D3K,then put it back on again to run. The offensive coach asked the PU why he did not call her out for that. But the PU said that he did not want to do that. Should he have called her out for that?

I've talked to other blues who've said that they will call the BR out as soon as she turns and heads for the team area. But I do not think that is correct, since no play is being made on her, she is free to take any path she wants to 1B. Even if it starts toward her dugout. (if she enters the team area, I know that she is out) Do any of you rule BR's out for this, that is, starting to go towards dugout, and is that correct? (when no play is being made on BR)

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by Bluefoot

I've talked to other blues who've said that they will call the BR out as soon as she turns and heads for the team area. But I do not think that is correct, since no play is being made on her, she is free to take any path she wants to 1B. Even if it starts toward her dugout. (if she enters the team area, I know that she is out) Do any of you rule BR's out for this, that is, starting to go towards dugout, and is that correct? (when no play is being made on BR)

She hasn't abandoned her ability to run until she enters DB territory. Remember the uproar in MLB last year over a guy that did that very thing? He started toward the dugout and then took off for 1st base. I can't remember the details of it but I'm sure someone here will.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Bluefoot

Complicating thinkg further on the play, the BR2 had taken off her helmet while walking back after the D3K,then put it back on again to run. The offensive coach asked the PU why he did not call her out for that. But the PU said that he did not want to do that. Should he have called her out for that?

Yes. Not wanting to call her out is not an excuse for failing to do so; when a runner removes a helmet during live ball play, they are out.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes. Not wanting to call her out is not an excuse for failing to do so; when a runner removes a helmet during live ball play, they are out.

It was NFHS.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

It was NFHS.

Good, because in ASA, unless there was an actual safety concern for the player (which doesn't seem to exist in this thread), the umpire shouldn't make that call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Good, because in ASA, unless there was an actual safety concern for the player (which doesn't seem to exist in this thread), the umpire shouldn't make that call.

My point was that there is no "out" rule for helmets in NFHS, but there is in ASA. And I agree, it should only apply if risk involved.