Any mechanic you'd like to add ???

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I'll bite. What is the "D" slot in two umpire mechanics?

Is it what is more commonly known at C2; off the right shoulder of F6, rather than "C" or C1, the left shoulder? Or is it the outlawed 10 x 10, not approved by ASA or NCAA?

I thought the position ids were universal, i.e. C or D being a location regardless of whether used in every system. To me D is on 3rd base line, like A on 1st base line.
I'm afraid I don't know what 10x10 is.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

And for a while.

Came from usage dating back to the 60's...maybe longer.

All good, worthwhile signs make their way into the book. Bill Klem was said to have looked like someone picking posies back when he was among the first (but definitely not the first) to use his right arm/hand to signify a strike.

But obviously SOME signs DO NOT GET CODIFIED because they are useless, or unprofessional, or some other perfectly good reason that would keep them from being used oustide a sandlot -- and certainly not in championship play. In fact, I'm sitting here smiling thinking of how Larry Montgomery, who is a very nice man, would get madder than a (your cliche here) if someone sprang that ol' double fist pump on him at, say, Men's Class A Final.

If nothing else, there would be an empty hotel bed somewhere...

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

All good, worthwhile signs make their way into the book. Bill Klem was said to have looked like someone picking posies back when he was among the first (but definitely not the first) to use his right arm/hand to signify a strike.

But obviously SOME signs DO NOT GET CODIFIED because they are useless, or unprofessional, or some other perfectly good reason that would keep them from being used oustide a sandlot -- and certainly not in championship play. In fact, I'm sitting here smiling thinking of how Larry Montgomery, who is a very nice man, would get madder than a (your cliche here) if someone sprang that ol' double fist pump on him at, say, Men's Class A Final.

If nothing else, there would be an empty hotel bed somewhere...

No one, least of all me, ever suggested or used a double fist pump, in any ASA sanctioned game or tournament.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I thought the position ids were universal, i.e. C or D being a location regardless of whether used in every system. To me D is on 3rd base line, like A on 1st base line.
I'm afraid I don't know what 10x10 is.

When would you ever be on the third base line in two man mechanics? That is what threw me; there isn't a D in two man. You must have been thinking three man, while saying two man.

The 10 x 10 is where some misguided individuals have placed themselves in (again) two man mechanics with a runner on third; 10' from the foul line, and 10' behind the base line. That position has been universally panned; kind of like the "Modern Mechanics" theory.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I thought the position ids were universal, i.e. C or D being a location regardless of whether used in every system. To me D is on 3rd base line, like A on 1st base line.
I'm afraid I don't know what 10x10 is.

I once worked a certain national where the UIC talked about the "slot" to base umpires. I ascertained they meant C...but that was a first for me.

[BretMan]

Speaking of signals...

While persuing the NCAA on-line umpire manual over the winter, I was surprised to see that they allow outs to be signalled with either the left of right hand. I'm not aware of any other organization with that quirk.

Had a chance to see this several times over the weekend while watching a ton of games on cable. To me, it looked...backwards!

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

I once worked a certain national where the UIC talked about the "slot" to base umpires. I ascertained they meant C...but that was a first for me.

I thought it was A B C or Rabbit!

[shipwreck]

I thought other sanctioning bodies allowed it but the overhand out signal had to be right handed. Maybe I was dreaming. Dave

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Speaking of signals...

While persuing the NCAA on-line umpire manual over the winter, I was surprised to see that they allow outs to be signalled with either the left of right hand. I'm not aware of any other organization with that quirk.

Had a chance to see this several times over the weekend while watching a ton of games on cable. To me, it looked...backwards!

Our training ump at clinic last year (dont know if this changed 5 mins later) said lefty umps could use their left for strike/out signals.

[jimpiano]

Is there a difference in being called out by the left hand versus the right?
Assuming the two know what the other is doing.

[Dakota]

ASA allows the overhand out to be signalled with the left hand for left-handed umpires because the overhand out is a throwing motion. IOW, they recognize that a left-handed umpire "throws like a girl" with his/her right hand. (Apologies to our female colleagues and athletes - but you know what I mean.)

Perhaps the reason the "non-sell" out and strike "hammer" are not to be given with the left hand is to avoid confusion as to what the signal actually is. I agree that most of the time context should mean the possibility for confusion would be small...

[SRW]

ASA Umpire Manual, Pg. 206 "Communication and Signals"
"Signaling is a very important aspect of umpiring. Decisions are relayed to the players, coaches and spectators using approved signals. The adopted signals are dignified, informative, meaningfull, and therefore, shall be used by all umpires. Poorly executed and unauthorized signals serve only to confuse. The manner in which a signal is given determines, at least to a degree, its ascceptance by the players, coaches and spectators."

ASA Umpire Manual, Pg. 225 Slow Pitch Plate Mechanics "Calling Balls and Strikes", 2nd paragraph:
"A pitched ball that hits the ground in front of home plate, hits home plate, or hits the batter, becomes dead and a non-verbal dead ball signal followed by a verbal ball or a strike signal shall be given.

ASA Umpire Manual, Pg. 239 "Selling the Call...Sell OUT/Sell SAFE", 3rd paragraph from the end:
"A left handed umpire is permitted to utilize their left hand and arm to make the overhand out signal as this is a natural movememnt of the umpire."

(Bold and underlined emphasis added by me.)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

When would you ever be on the third base line in two man mechanics? That is what threw me; there isn't a D in two man. You must have been thinking three man, while saying two man.

The 10 x 10 is where some misguided individuals have placed themselves in (again) two man mechanics with a runner on third; 10' from the foul line, and 10' behind the base line. That position has been universally panned; kind of like the "Modern Mechanics" theory.

I said "position ids were universal, i.e. C or D being a location regardless of whether used in every system", not that I thought D was used in two-umps. If I say "C is not used in slowpitch, or D is not used in two-ump", they are still position identifiers. Apparently, 10x10 is what some would call C3, but never use.

[blue man]

So......... is the left handed strike just for slo pitch? Or do you have a left-handed plate ump banging players out with their mask in their left hand?

[BretMan]

So, the ASA manual does have one sentence that okay's a left-handed out call in limited situations.

Guess I missed that. Might not have missed it if not for the fact that this line appears 32 pages past the section on "Communication and Signals" where a description of all the approved signals appears- including the "sell out" where it says to use the right hand.

An odd quirk, that.

Still can't find any written description of using the left hand to signal strikes...