Is this a LBR violation?

[WestMichBlue]

B1 hits ball to outfield, misses 1B, and beats the throw into 2B. Ball is returned to F1 in the circle. F3 is calling for the ball, claiming B-R missed the base.

R1 (former B-R, former B1) realizes her error and breaks for 1B.

Would you call a LBR violation?

If R1 is trapped on 2B and not allowed to return, would you then allow the defense's request for time to make a dead ball appeal, thus not risking a throw? If F1 makes a throw, then the LBR is off and R1 can return. F1 could make a bad throw and R1 might escape safely back to 1B. So - is it fair to use the LBR to aid the defense, who should be required to successfully execute a live ball appeal?

WMB

[Dakota]

Don't know about fair, but...

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

B1 hits ball to outfield, misses 1B, and beats the throw into 2B. Ball is returned to F1 in the circle. F3 is calling for the ball, claiming B-R missed the base.

R1 (former B-R, former B1) realizes her error and breaks for 1B.

Would you call a LBR violation?

What did F1 do in response to F3's calling for the ball? Was it enough motion to be considered "making a play" (ASA: caused the runner to react). If F1 is just standing there looking confused, LBR violation. If F1 is beginning to make the play, not a LBR violation.

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

... would you then allow the defense's request for time to make a dead ball appeal, thus not risking a throw?

If playing action has ceased, yes. This is not using the LBR to aid the defense, the runner committed the base-running violation and found herself stranded and unable to correct her error.

[Woodchuck]

LBR is in effect. If runner steps off 2nd and pitcher has made on attempt to make a play prior to the runner stepping off 2nd, call her out. Once a runner stops on a base and the ball is in the circle and in possession of the pitcher, ruuner can't leave the base.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

This is not using the LBR to aid the defense, the runner committed the base-running violation and found herself stranded and unable to correct her error.

Well, yes it is. If the ball was held by any of the other eight defensive players, or even the ninth if she is not in the circle, then the runner is free to leave the base and attempt to return. It is only because of a non-related rule (not related to appeal plays) that the runner is stranded.

I am not arguing not to call the LBR violation; I am just trying to find out if anybody has a reason not to.

WMB

[Woodchuck]

In ASA this can be a dead ball appeal if the ump grants time. If time is not granted then its is still a live ball appeal and the ball does not need to be thrown to first for the missed base appeal or to 2nd to tag the runner the defense just needs to annouce the appeal and the governing umpire make the call. If the ball is thrown then the runner can advance and hope the defense messes things up and she gets away with it.

[SergioJ]

Originally Posted by Woodchuck

In ASA this can be a dead ball appeal if the ump grants time. If time is not granted then its is still a live ball appeal and the ball does not need to be thrown to first for the missed base appeal or to 2nd to tag the runner the defense just needs to annouce the appeal and the governing umpire make the call. If the ball is thrown then the runner can advance and hope the defense messes things up and she gets away with it.

My apologies to Woodchuck. Think I told him wrong. In ASA, a live ball appeal can only be made by an infielder with the ball and either tagging the runner or the missed base. If a dead ball appeal, then any infielder can appeal with or without the ball.

Again, my apologies to Woodchuck.

Serg

[tcannizzo]

Are you saying that BR (aka B1,R1) was standing on 2B the moment P got control of the ball in the circle without making a play?

If so, how long did she take to break for 1B?

a.) If within the allowable time frame for LBR, then she is legal to run (that would be her one stop)

b.) If more than the allowable time from for LBR, then she is a dead duck, either on LBR...or... At that point I would have to grant TIME to the defense which would enable the DBA.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Are you saying that BR (aka B1,R1) was standing on 2B the moment P got control of the ball in the circle without making a play?

If so, how long did she take to break for 1B?

a.) If within the allowable time frame for LBR, then she is legal to run (that would be her one stop)

b.) If more than the allowable time from for LBR, then she is a dead duck, either on LBR...or... At that point I would have to grant TIME to the defense which would enable the DBA.

The "one stop" only applies if she is not stopped on a base at the time the LBR goes into effect.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Are you saying that BR (aka B1,R1) was standing on 2B the moment P got control of the ball in the circle without making a play?

If so, how long did she take to break for 1B?

a.) If within the allowable time frame for LBR, then she is legal to run (that would be her one stop)

No - if she's on the base at the moment the pitcher obtains control of the ball in the circle (and not making a play), she gets no 1-1000-2, and no "stop" - these both apply to a runner already off base at the time the pitcher gets the ball. A runner on the base at this time is stuck unless F1 makes a play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SergioJ

My apologies to Woodchuck. Think I told him wrong. In ASA, a live ball appeal can only be made by an infielder with the ball and either tagging the runner or the missed base. If a dead ball appeal, then any infielder can appeal with or without the ball.

Again, my apologies to Woodchuck.

Serg

Damn interpreters!!