Another FLex Situation

[Dukat]

I have searched and did not find a situation like the one I am describing so I hope I did not miss it and am asking something that has already been discussed but here goes: Fed Rules

Say you have a player who is a good hitter but not very fast and not the Pitcher or Catcher so not able for a CR. Could the coach do the following:

Start the game with 10 players in the lineup and that player listed as Flex and someone else as DP.

Before the 1st AB of the game for the DB, go and tell the umpire that the FLEX is going to bat for the DP (DP Out of Game)

She gets a hit and is on 1st and then coach comes up and says she wants to reenter DP to run and move that player back to FLEX.

The question is, with a very deep lineup, could that coach continue to allow the Flex to bat every time up at that position just burning a new DP player each time she gets on base by subbing for the DP position and returning her to Flex after she gets on base?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dukat

I have searched and did not find a situation like the one I am describing so I hope I did not miss it and am asking something that has already been discussed but here goes: Fed Rules

Say you have a player who is a good hitter but not very fast and not the Pitcher or Catcher so not able for a CR. Could the coach do the following:

Start the game with 10 players in the lineup and that player listed as Flex and someone else as DP.

Before the 1st AB of the DB go and tell the umpire that the FLEX is going to bat for the DP (DP Out of Game)

She gets a hit and is on 1st and then coach comes up and says she wants to reenter DP to run and move that player back to FLEX.

The question is, with a very deep lineup, could that coach continue to allow the Flex to bat every time up at that position just burning a new DP player each time she gets on base by subbing for the DP position and returning her to Flex after she gets on base?

Sure. Just remember, the starting DP has one re-entry, as does each subsequent replacement DP, as per ASA and NFHS.

[Dukat]

That is my thoughts but I have had others tell me that when you run for her since she is the player playing DP and she can not actually go back to Flex until the next half inning it would be a sub for her and she would be out of the game for a half inning therefore would be burnt after one reentry. My take is that if the coach states at the switch that the sub is for the DP and the Flex is returning to the FLEX position then that would be legal and she would not have been considered to have left the game.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dukat

That is my thoughts but I have had others tell me that when you run for her since she is the player playing DP and she can not actually go back to Flex until the next half inning it would be a sub for her and she would be out of the game for a half inning therefore would be burnt after one reentry. My take is that if the coach states at the switch that the sub is for the DP and the Flex is returning to the FLEX position then that would be legal and she would not have been considered to have left the game.

Let's simplify this. Here is a way to think of it to keep things straight. The DP is supposed to play offense. The FLEX is supposed to play defense. If either don't do what they are supposed to do, then you have a charged substitution. In the situation you provided, the FLEX is still playing defense, in other words, doing what she is supposed to do. Therefore, she cannot be substituted either in or out of the lineup. All she has done is taken on another task, that of batting for the DP. So, obviously the DP isn't doing what she is supposed to be, therefore, she has been subbed for.

Now, the starting DP comes back in to run (re-entry). She is back to doing what it is she is supposed to do. The FLEX is just working her old spot on defense.

In the third inning, it is time for our starting DP to bat again. The coach comes up to you and says "Blue, I want my FLEX to bat for my DP again." You say, "okay." The FLEX, who is still doing her job as a defensive player, has once again taken on the DP's job of playing offense. Therefore, the starting DP is back out of the game (substitution).

FLEX gets a base hit. Wow, she is a consistent hitter but such a slow runner. So, coach comes up to you and says, "I want to designate this legal sub, June Substitute, number 42, to be my new DP. And......I want her to go in and run for the FLEX." You say, "okay."

Has the FLEX ever left her spot on defense? No. Therefore, has she ever been substituted for? No. She has continuously done what she was put in the game for, and even more. Does that make it easier?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Dukat

I have had others tell me that when you run for her since she is the player playing DP and she can not actually go back to Flex until the next half inning it would be a sub for her...

One other thing, the FLEX is never the DP. Can she bat for the DP? Yes. Can she run for the DP? Yes. Can she be the DP? No. Never. She is the FLEX. The person who is in the game to play defense. Never call her by any other name. In the same sense, the DP can never be the FLEX. She can play defense for the FLEX, but she can never be the FLEX.

I think that concept is the one most people struggle with the hardest.

[Dakota]

This strategy has one advantage over just using a pinch runner - your big bat never leaves the game and so never uses up her re-entry rights.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dukat

That is my thoughts but I have had others tell me that when you run for her since she is the player playing DP and she can not actually go back to Flex until the next half inning it would be a sub for her and she would be out of the game for a half inning therefore would be burnt after one reentry. My take is that if the coach states at the switch that the sub is for the DP and the Flex is returning to the FLEX position then that would be legal and she would not have been considered to have left the game.

Then you have "others" who do not understand the rule. The ONLY way for the FLEX to leave the game is to not enter the field when her team is on defense.

[SRW]

I've found this powerpoint presentation on lineup management most helpful in understanding lineup changes, especially with the DP/FLEX.

[Skahtboi]

As a footnote to this, I worked a HS tournament this weekend. On this particular game, I was the BU and my partner was the PU. Coach from the "home" team comes out and asks my partner at the beginning of the game, "Do you want to know when I send my DP in to play defense. I will be putting her in and taking her out on defense throughout the game."

My partner's reply, "No coach. I don't care what you do on defense. Just bring me the offensive changes."

I interrupted and said, "Yes coach, he really does want to know when the DP goes in and out on defense."

Coach replied, "I thought so."

I then informed my partner that he needs to know all subs, and that IF the DP went in to play defense for the FLEX, that he would have a substitute situation. He came back with the old "any of the nine can play defense line," which I told him meant that the FLEX has to play defense. If she isn't in the line-up on defense, then it is a substitution. He still wanted to argue, so I asked him to just trust me on this, and check the book after the game.

I don't know if he ever checked the book or not. If he didn't, then he missed a learning moment. However, I was heartened by the fact that the coach seemed to have a grasp on the rule, even if my partner didn't.

[JefferMC]

Help me with this situation. Monday I was the scorekeeper (coach/umpire/Dad/scorekeeper, the list of hats keeps growing) for the home team. Both teams using DP/Flex. Neither really had them marked on the line up card with the proper terms, but that's okay. Home team coach intends to substitute player in at the top of the 4th inning, intending that she takes over offensive duties for the DP (in the #9 slot) and 3rd base for Flex (in the #10) position. I'm thinking that the DP/Flex disappears into a regular player in slot 9.

I know the player must go into the #9 slot in the batting order. But what do I do with the Flex slot? If giving opinions regarding the scorebook is beneath you, what would you do on your lineup card?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Help me with this situation. Monday I was the scorekeeper (coach/umpire/Dad/scorekeeper, the list of hats keeps growing) for the home team. Both teams using DP/Flex. Neither really had them marked on the line up card with the proper terms, but that's okay. Home team coach intends to substitute player in at the top of the 4th inning, intending that she takes over offensive duties for the DP (in the #9 slot) and 3rd base for Flex (in the #10) position. I'm thinking that the DP/Flex disappears into a regular player in slot 9.

I know the player must go into the #9 slot in the batting order. But what do I do with the Flex slot? If giving opinions regarding the scorebook is beneath you, what would you do on your lineup card?

What you have is a sub for your DP, initially, with that player going into the number 9 spot on the batting order. Then, your DP plays defense for the FLEX, which is treated once again like a substitution as far as the starting FLEX is concerned. However, both the starting DP and the starting FLEX still have one re-entry available to them. So, while you never make the DP/FLEX disappear, once you start with them, at this point the active line-up has dropped to nine players. It can always go back to ten again, though, with the re-entry of the starting FLEX or a legal substitute for the starting FLEX.

Is that clear as mud for you?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

I know the player must go into the #9 slot in the batting order. But what do I do with the Flex slot? If giving opinions regarding the scorebook is beneath you, what would you do on your lineup card?

The FLEX slot remains on the card. Just make sure to notate that the player is out of the game. I do that on my lineup card by circling the player's number and drawing an arrow pointing from the DP to the FLEX. That let's me know that they have left the game, and the DP is playing defense. If the FLEX returns, the arrow is pointed back at the DP, letting me know that the FLEX is back in. If they leave once again, and are replaced on defense by the DP, then I cross out their number. This let's me know that particular player cannot re-enter.

[CecilOne]

Good questions and good answers.
Just for emphasis, there is no inning or half-inning reference in the DP/FLEX rule.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Just for emphasis, there is no inning or half-inning reference in the DP/FLEX rule.

I am not sure what you are inferring here.

[JefferMC]

Thanks, Scott.