The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 09:08am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 56
Obstruction at the plate

Mechanics question.

R1 at 2B. Ball hit to LF. R1 rounds 3B coming home. Catcher is parked in front of plate waiting for throw. Question is, when do you signal obstruction-- i.e., hand out to side? If throw beats R1 at home, then no obstruction, if no throw, then obstruction. How do you signal this.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 09:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave
Mechanics question.

R1 at 2B. Ball hit to LF. R1 rounds 3B coming home. Catcher is parked in front of plate waiting for throw. Question is, when do you signal obstruction-- i.e., hand out to side? If throw beats R1 at home, then no obstruction, if no throw, then obstruction. How do you signal this.
You signal OBS at the moment it occurs. Remember, there are two elements to OBS. One is that the fielder is blocking the path to the base, without possession of the ball. The second is that the runner must do something, (i.e. alter their path when they normally wouldn't have, slide wider than one would expect...etc.), to show that their path was obstructed. Once this second element occurs, provided that the first is still in place, then you have OBS and would signal a delayed dead ball.
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 10:34am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: north central Pa
Posts: 2,360
Dave,
As has been said, signal when it happens. I've had obstruction occur so late that my arm was barely extended before calling dead ball.
__________________
Steve M
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 11:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 56
What you're saying is that I wouldn't signal delayed dead ball (hand out to side) until both elements are met. Having the catcher camp in front of the plate is not obstruction until the runner gets there and has to alter her running/sliding etc. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 12:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave
What you're saying is that I wouldn't signal delayed dead ball (hand out to side) until both elements are met. Having the catcher camp in front of the plate is not obstruction until the runner gets there and has to alter her running/sliding etc. Thanks.
While we are at it, let's talk about positioning. Typically umpires get too close to the tag play at home. In the past we simply focused on the catcher and awaited the ball to see the play.

Now we have to get back further; far enough to see both the catcher and the runner. The runner may deviate 10' - 15' - 20' upline and we need to be able to see that.

I am thinking that we need to change the normal position (1B to home line) and move more behind the plate (2B to home line) This cuts down on the angle needed to see the runner and we can be closer to the plate. It also gives us a better view of the swipe tag on a runner that is sliding wide of the plate.

Comments?

WMB
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 01:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestMichBlue
While we are at it, let's talk about positioning. Typically umpires get too close to the tag play at home. In the past we simply focused on the catcher and awaited the ball to see the play.
Actually, I'm watching the runner and ball. The runner will tip me off if there is OBS. The location of the catcher prior to that instant is irrelevant.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 03, 2006, 07:03pm
SRW SRW is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestMichBlue
I am thinking that we need to change the normal position (1B to home line) and move more behind the plate (2B to home line) This cuts down on the angle needed to see the runner and we can be closer to the plate. It also gives us a better view of the swipe tag on a runner that is sliding wide of the plate.

Comments?
A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February. (BKBJones: We discussed this on Saturday!) I personally don't like it because it takes away the leading edge of the plate, and the 90 from the runner's path. Why should HP be treated any different than any other base when it comes to the position/view of a slide/tag play?

$0.02.
__________________
We see with our eyes. Fans and parents see with their hearts.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 04, 2006, 02:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Back in TX, formerly Seattle area
Posts: 1,279
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February. (BKBJones: We discussed this on Saturday!) I personally don't like it because it takes away the leading edge of the plate, and the 90 from the runner's path. Why should HP be treated any different than any other base when it comes to the position/view of a slide/tag play?

$0.02.

Gotta have all the elements in front of ya, and that includes seeing all of the plate. Standing in the line from 2B through home takes away some of that element.

And...what if the runner goes for another part of the plate. Aren't you more likely to be in the road if you are standing behind the plate.

I didn't like this position when it was posited in February and still don't like it in October.

The point that too many umpires are way too close is, however, VERY relevant. I see it all the time, and not just at home plate. I see it at 1B, 2B and 3B. It doesn't bug me as much as the lazy buttonhook, but it still bugs me.
__________________
John
An ucking fidiot
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 04, 2006, 07:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRW
A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February.
And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 04, 2006, 10:26am
SRW SRW is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle area
Posts: 1,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.
I'm glad you read between the lines on that one...
__________________
We see with our eyes. Fans and parents see with their hearts.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 05, 2006, 12:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 122
Two things must oocur for there to be obstruction. Defense blocking access the the base or plate, and the runner reacting to that including contact.
When both happen, signal and call obstruction.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 05, 2006, 01:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Sherman, TX
Posts: 4,376
Quote:
Originally Posted by booker227
Two things must oocur for there to be obstruction. Defense blocking access the the base or plate, and the runner reacting to that including contact.
When both happen, signal and call obstruction.
Ummmm....hasn't that already been said????
__________________
Scott


It's a small world, but I wouldn't want to have to paint it.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 05, 2006, 01:34pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi
Ummmm....hasn't that already been said????
Not today. Not yesterday either.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 06, 2006, 06:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with you Mike. At the national I went to this year...and others on this board can attest...we were told some strange positioning, and it was personal preferences of those in charge.

But considering that I did 18 games and never ONCE was instructed that I was missing mechanics or out of position, I guess personal opinion was a huge part of it.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Oct 14, 2006, 01:06am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sierra Nevada Mtns
Posts: 3,220
I think its almost absurd to try to strictly define where someone stands on a given play, because there are so many variables to take into account, and what separates good umpires from those who biblically follow A B C mechanics is being able to recognize when a different movement is required to give the best angle.

Sometimes in front of the hp.. some times back from 3b-hp extended, sometimes rotating as the play devolopes changing position, sometimes up 3b line, up 1b line.. so some personnal opinion may come in when discussing case play/positioning as to how something could be done in a given situation is fine; always something to learn.

In any case, to think that 3 umpires couldnt walk on a field and work together because they may hold differing views on positioning on a given play at home is more than just a little rigid, and furthermore, incorrect.
__________________
ASA, NCAA, NFHS
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OBS at the plate richez Softball 8 Fri May 12, 2006 10:13am
Plate Obstruction Mechanics Dukat Softball 11 Wed Apr 06, 2005 06:56am
Obstruction at the plate? MDblue Softball 19 Wed Feb 09, 2005 09:31pm
Coed slopitch and the plate line vs home plate SactoBlue Softball 14 Thu Oct 28, 2004 11:42am
plate ump bethsdad Softball 5 Thu Jun 26, 2003 10:51am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1