Obstruction at the plate

[Hoosier_Dave]

Mechanics question.

R1 at 2B. Ball hit to LF. R1 rounds 3B coming home. Catcher is parked in front of plate waiting for throw. Question is, when do you signal obstruction-- i.e., hand out to side? If throw beats R1 at home, then no obstruction, if no throw, then obstruction. How do you signal this.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

Mechanics question.

R1 at 2B. Ball hit to LF. R1 rounds 3B coming home. Catcher is parked in front of plate waiting for throw. Question is, when do you signal obstruction-- i.e., hand out to side? If throw beats R1 at home, then no obstruction, if no throw, then obstruction. How do you signal this.

You signal OBS at the moment it occurs. Remember, there are two elements to OBS. One is that the fielder is blocking the path to the base, without possession of the ball. The second is that the runner must do something, (i.e. alter their path when they normally wouldn't have, slide wider than one would expect...etc.), to show that their path was obstructed. Once this second element occurs, provided that the first is still in place, then you have OBS and would signal a delayed dead ball.

[Steve M]

Dave,
As has been said, signal when it happens. I've had obstruction occur so late that my arm was barely extended before calling dead ball.

[Hoosier_Dave]

What you're saying is that I wouldn't signal delayed dead ball (hand out to side) until both elements are met. Having the catcher camp in front of the plate is not obstruction until the runner gets there and has to alter her running/sliding etc. Thanks.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

What you're saying is that I wouldn't signal delayed dead ball (hand out to side) until both elements are met. Having the catcher camp in front of the plate is not obstruction until the runner gets there and has to alter her running/sliding etc. Thanks.

While we are at it, let's talk about positioning. Typically umpires get too close to the tag play at home. In the past we simply focused on the catcher and awaited the ball to see the play.

Now we have to get back further; far enough to see both the catcher and the runner. The runner may deviate 10' - 15' - 20' upline and we need to be able to see that.

I am thinking that we need to change the normal position (1B to home line) and move more behind the plate (2B to home line) This cuts down on the angle needed to see the runner and we can be closer to the plate. It also gives us a better view of the swipe tag on a runner that is sliding wide of the plate.

Comments?

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

While we are at it, let's talk about positioning. Typically umpires get too close to the tag play at home. In the past we simply focused on the catcher and awaited the ball to see the play.

Actually, I'm watching the runner and ball. The runner will tip me off if there is OBS. The location of the catcher prior to that instant is irrelevant.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

I am thinking that we need to change the normal position (1B to home line) and move more behind the plate (2B to home line) This cuts down on the angle needed to see the runner and we can be closer to the plate. It also gives us a better view of the swipe tag on a runner that is sliding wide of the plate.

Comments?

A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February. (BKBJones: We discussed this on Saturday!) I personally don't like it because it takes away the leading edge of the plate, and the 90 from the runner's path. Why should HP be treated any different than any other base when it comes to the position/view of a slide/tag play?

$0.02.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by SRW

A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February. (BKBJones: We discussed this on Saturday!) I personally don't like it because it takes away the leading edge of the plate, and the 90 from the runner's path. Why should HP be treated any different than any other base when it comes to the position/view of a slide/tag play?

$0.02.

Gotta have all the elements in front of ya, and that includes seeing all of the plate. Standing in the line from 2B through home takes away some of that element.

And...what if the runner goes for another part of the plate. Aren't you more likely to be in the road if you are standing behind the plate.

I didn't like this position when it was posited in February and still don't like it in October.

The point that too many umpires are way too close is, however, VERY relevant. I see it all the time, and not just at home plate. I see it at 1B, 2B and 3B. It doesn't bug me as much as the lazy buttonhook, but it still bugs me.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

A certain member of the ASA NUS recommended that position at the Seattle NUSchool in February.

And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.

I'm glad you read between the lines on that one...

[booker227]

Two things must oocur for there to be obstruction. Defense blocking access the the base or plate, and the runner reacting to that including contact.
When both happen, signal and call obstruction.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by booker227

Two things must oocur for there to be obstruction. Defense blocking access the the base or plate, and the runner reacting to that including contact.
When both happen, signal and call obstruction.

Ummmm....hasn't that already been said????

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Ummmm....hasn't that already been said????

Not today. Not yesterday either.

[FUBLUE]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And, to me, this is becoming an issue in the past few years.

One of the benefits of ASA's training in the past was that three umpires who have never met could walk onto a field and work a game with little difficulty.

Recently, I am hearing/seeing personal preferences being added to schools and clinics that are not part of the umpire manual. I have no problem with sensible changes, but I believe the members of the Director's staff and NUS should all be on the same page teaching everyone the same preferred methods.

I hate to admit it, but I agree with you Mike. At the national I went to this year...and others on this board can attest...we were told some strange positioning, and it was personal preferences of those in charge.

But considering that I did 18 games and never ONCE was instructed that I was missing mechanics or out of position, I guess personal opinion was a huge part of it.

[wadeintothem]

I think its almost absurd to try to strictly define where someone stands on a given play, because there are so many variables to take into account, and what separates good umpires from those who biblically follow A B C mechanics is being able to recognize when a different movement is required to give the best angle.

Sometimes in front of the hp.. some times back from 3b-hp extended, sometimes rotating as the play devolopes changing position, sometimes up 3b line, up 1b line.. so some personnal opinion may come in when discussing case play/positioning as to how something could be done in a given situation is fine; always something to learn.

In any case, to think that 3 umpires couldnt walk on a field and work together because they may hold differing views on positioning on a given play at home is more than just a little rigid, and furthermore, incorrect.