Fall ball

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I have had the tournament officials remove a parent. I was at 3rd and this parent literally cussed at the kid at 3rd base - to me, that was WAAAAAAY over the line. I told her if she hurried, she could get back to the hotel beore the pool closes cause she certainly wasn't watching the rest of this game!

Congrats ... but why did you feel it was necessary for you, as umpire, to interject yourself. It may have been way over A line, but it is not your line to draw unless a fan gets to the point where they are disrupting a game (which for me, would practically require said fan to enter the field).

You're asking for trouble addressing any nonsense outside the fence ... especially if mandated by rule as in the OP.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Congrats ... but why did you feel it was necessary for you, as umpire, to interject yourself. It may have been way over A line, but it is not your line to draw unless a fan gets to the point where they are disrupting a game (which for me, would practically require said fan to enter the field).

You're asking for trouble addressing any nonsense outside the fence ... especially if mandated by rule as in the OP.

IMO, a fan sitting on the first row, right next to the field, cussing at a girl that's 11 yo IS a disruption to the game. When you can see it effecting the kids - I'd step in everytime. You may disagree, but without hesitation, I'd do it again. It's not about the fans or me - it's about the kids.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

IMO, a fan sitting on the first row, right next to the field, cussing at a girl that's 11 yo IS a disruption to the game. When you can see it effecting the kids - I'd step in everytime. You may disagree, but without hesitation, I'd do it again. It's not about the fans or me - it's about the kids.

No offense here, but you seem to be proving in both forums today that you don't actually call the levels you are posting. A real NCAA umpire would NEVER EVER EVER acknowledge the fans. And you should never do so at lower levels either. If an umpire working for me did as you suggest, I'd hesitate to schedule them. This is an AWFUL idea.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

No offense here, but you seem to be proving in both forums today that you don't actually call the levels you are posting. A real NCAA umpire would NEVER EVER EVER acknowledge the fans. And you should never do so at lower levels either. If an umpire working for me did as you suggest, I'd hesitate to schedule them. This is an AWFUL idea.

First of all, let me look and see - NOPE, It wasn't an NCAA game - unless they allow 11 year olds to play college ball. I don't worry about the fans at any level UNLESS they are disrupting the game and bothering the kids. If you would allow this to happen then you have the problem. A fan yelling obsenities at a child IS a problem and I will not tollerate it on my field. What you are saying is you have no morals? (No offense here!)

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

First of all, let me look and see - NOPE, It wasn't an NCAA game - unless they allow 11 year olds to play college ball. I don't worry about the fans at any level UNLESS they are disrupting the game and bothering the kids. If you would allow this to happen then you have the problem. A fan yelling obsenities at a child IS a problem and I will not tollerate it on my field. What you are saying is you have no morals? (No offense here!)

Don't you two have email accounts with which you can disagree?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Don't you two have email accounts with which you can disagree?

That's funny! Heck, I'd give him my phone number and we could talk on the phone. Ain't nothing but a thing!!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Don't you two have email accounts with which you can disagree?

Gee MN... do you make this comment to everyone who had opposing viewpoints? What the heck would the point of a forum be if anytime you disagreed with someone you had to take it off line. Good grief.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

...I will not tollerate it on my field. ...

You own the field?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

First of all, let me look and see - NOPE, It wasn't an NCAA game - unless they allow 11 year olds to play college ball. I don't worry about the fans at any level UNLESS they are disrupting the game and bothering the kids. If you would allow this to happen then you have the problem. A fan yelling obsenities at a child IS a problem and I will not tollerate it on my field. What you are saying is you have no morals? (No offense here!)

You continue to go out of your way to intentionally misunderstand. So I'll go slow.

I'm assuming, from your signature and from other claims you make, that you work (at least on occasion) NCAA games. To have gotten this far, surely you've attended enough clinics and have enough experience, that you should have been able to put away your rabbit ears by now, and you should know that A) you are there to officiate the game, B) you are not there to enforce whatever your personal opinion of fan decorum may be, C) it is unprofessional to get into any conflict with fans (or even acknowledge they exist) and D) there is a danger to the umpire that can be caused by interacting with fans ... at WHATEVER level.

So if you've managed to progress far enough to ignore fan nonsense, why do you feel you have to put the rabbit ears back on at younger games.

Where do you get the idea that it is your set of morals that should dictate what is and is not appropriate for fans - what is "obscene"? Seems awfully heavy-handed of you. If you have to do that with players/coaches - fine. You are in charge of the field. You are not in charge of the entire complex. Let someone who IS handle this nonsense.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You continue to go out of your way to intentionally misunderstand. So I'll go slow.

I'm assuming, from your signature and from other claims you make, that you work (at least on occasion) NCAA games. To have gotten this far, surely you've attended enough clinics and have enough experience, that you should have been able to put away your rabbit ears by now, and you should know that A) you are there to officiate the game, B) you are not there to enforce whatever your personal opinion of fan decorum may be, C) it is unprofessional to get into any conflict with fans (or even acknowledge they exist) and D) there is a danger to the umpire that can be caused by interacting with fans ... at WHATEVER level.

So if you've managed to progress far enough to ignore fan nonsense, why do you feel you have to put the rabbit ears back on at younger games.

Where do you get the idea that it is your set of morals that should dictate what is and is not appropriate for fans - what is "obscene"? Seems awfully heavy-handed of you. If you have to do that with players/coaches - fine. You are in charge of the field. You are not in charge of the entire complex. Let someone who IS handle this nonsense.

Oh gosh, I don't have rabbit ears. But when I have a little girl that is being distracted from the game because of a parent (you are probably right it was more than likely her's) yelling at the child. IMO, this IS my concern. All I need is a shot down the 3rd baseline and she gets blasted because her focus is what's going on over the fence. That's why I made the decision I made. Would I do it again? - absolutely. Would I do it in a high school game? - would take a catastrophe. Would I do it in an NCAA game? - helllllll no. My point was the age of the child involved and my belief that it was a distraction - thus I acted.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Oh gosh, I don't have rabbit ears. But when I have a little girl that is being distracted from the game because of a parent (you are probably right it was more than likely her's) yelling at the child. IMO, this IS my concern. All I need is a shot down the 3rd baseline and she gets blasted because her focus is what's going on over the fence. That's why I made the decision I made. Would I do it again? - absolutely. Would I do it in a high school game? - would take a catastrophe. Would I do it in an NCAA game? - helllllll no. My point was the age of the child involved and my belief that it was a distraction - thus I acted.

I disagree, it is not your concern. You are not a coach, a team member or a parent. The sole purpose for your being on the field is to umpire the ball game.

As well intentioned as I am sure your action is meant to be, it just isn't you place to do this.

There is no doubt that parents are the bane of youth sports. However, that is the coaching staff's issue, not that of a game official. If the coach believed it affected the player's ability to participate in the game, then s/he is the one who should make the decision, not you. If this were someone attached to the opposing team, I could see you raising the issue, but to the coach, not the fan or TD. You deal with the people on the field, let them deal with the people outside the fences.

JMHO,

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Congrats ... but why did you feel it was necessary for you, as umpire, to interject yourself. It may have been way over A line, but it is not your line to draw unless a fan gets to the point where they are disrupting a game (which for me, would practically require said fan to enter the field).

You're asking for trouble addressing any nonsense outside the fence ... especially if mandated by rule as in the OP.

I agree. The umpire is there to officiate the game. The umpire is not there as the language police, social services, ground crew, crowd control or babysitter (except adult SP).

If an umpire is that upset with a fan's action, it should be addressed to a coach, TD or site administrator.

Yes, I know there are organizations which afford an umpire authority outside the fence. I do not agree with it and, in certain circumstances, can place undo liability on an umpire.

[IamMatt]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The umpire is not there as the language police, social services, ground crew, crowd control or babysitter (except adult SP).

Now that's funny!

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If an umpire is that upset with a fan's action, it should be addressed to a coach, TD or site administrator.

A quick review of my post would reveal that this is exactly what I did. I certainly did not remove them - had tournament management do it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A quick review of my post would reveal that this is exactly what I did. I certainly did not remove them - had tournament management do it.

Didn't say you didn't, especially since I wasn't responding to your post.

I would say, however, that what you described, I wouldn't consider that as affecting the game and wouldn't even address this issue.