Fall ball

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Don't you two have email accounts with which you can disagree?

Gee MN... do you make this comment to everyone who had opposing viewpoints? What the heck would the point of a forum be if anytime you disagreed with someone you had to take it off line. Good grief.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

First of all, let me look and see - NOPE, It wasn't an NCAA game - unless they allow 11 year olds to play college ball. I don't worry about the fans at any level UNLESS they are disrupting the game and bothering the kids. If you would allow this to happen then you have the problem. A fan yelling obsenities at a child IS a problem and I will not tollerate it on my field. What you are saying is you have no morals? (No offense here!)

You continue to go out of your way to intentionally misunderstand. So I'll go slow.

I'm assuming, from your signature and from other claims you make, that you work (at least on occasion) NCAA games. To have gotten this far, surely you've attended enough clinics and have enough experience, that you should have been able to put away your rabbit ears by now, and you should know that A) you are there to officiate the game, B) you are not there to enforce whatever your personal opinion of fan decorum may be, C) it is unprofessional to get into any conflict with fans (or even acknowledge they exist) and D) there is a danger to the umpire that can be caused by interacting with fans ... at WHATEVER level.

So if you've managed to progress far enough to ignore fan nonsense, why do you feel you have to put the rabbit ears back on at younger games.

Where do you get the idea that it is your set of morals that should dictate what is and is not appropriate for fans - what is "obscene"? Seems awfully heavy-handed of you. If you have to do that with players/coaches - fine. You are in charge of the field. You are not in charge of the entire complex. Let someone who IS handle this nonsense.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Are you saying you have never had a situation where spectator(s) are disrupting or inciting the players?

Especially in HS or youth games, some behavior "outside the fence" is unacceptable and we might need to remind the TD/admin/coach.

Never? No - I can't say never. But I can say that when I did cross that line, I was out of line, unprofessional, and regretted doing it. And even then, I did not address the fan. I went to the relevant coach, and told him we'd continue play when he put a stop to it... But like I said, I shouldn't have.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A quick review of my post would reveal that this is exactly what I did. I certainly did not remove them - had tournament management do it.

I don't have much of a problem with your method, I suppose.

It's the initial fact that you felt it was appropriate to interject yourself. Do you mean to say it was impossible to continue the game, because a parent yelled at a kid (possibly his own). I didn't think that was what you meant ... but that should be the standard. Parent yelling at kid (regardless of his vocabulary) is NOT YOUR JOB.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You continue to go out of your way to intentionally misunderstand. So I'll go slow.

I'm assuming, from your signature and from other claims you make, that you work (at least on occasion) NCAA games. To have gotten this far, surely you've attended enough clinics and have enough experience, that you should have been able to put away your rabbit ears by now, and you should know that A) you are there to officiate the game, B) you are not there to enforce whatever your personal opinion of fan decorum may be, C) it is unprofessional to get into any conflict with fans (or even acknowledge they exist) and D) there is a danger to the umpire that can be caused by interacting with fans ... at WHATEVER level.

So if you've managed to progress far enough to ignore fan nonsense, why do you feel you have to put the rabbit ears back on at younger games.

Where do you get the idea that it is your set of morals that should dictate what is and is not appropriate for fans - what is "obscene"? Seems awfully heavy-handed of you. If you have to do that with players/coaches - fine. You are in charge of the field. You are not in charge of the entire complex. Let someone who IS handle this nonsense.

Oh gosh, I don't have rabbit ears. But when I have a little girl that is being distracted from the game because of a parent (you are probably right it was more than likely her's) yelling at the child. IMO, this IS my concern. All I need is a shot down the 3rd baseline and she gets blasted because her focus is what's going on over the fence. That's why I made the decision I made. Would I do it again? - absolutely. Would I do it in a high school game? - would take a catastrophe. Would I do it in an NCAA game? - helllllll no. My point was the age of the child involved and my belief that it was a distraction - thus I acted.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Oh gosh, I don't have rabbit ears. But when I have a little girl that is being distracted from the game because of a parent (you are probably right it was more than likely her's) yelling at the child. IMO, this IS my concern. All I need is a shot down the 3rd baseline and she gets blasted because her focus is what's going on over the fence. That's why I made the decision I made. Would I do it again? - absolutely. Would I do it in a high school game? - would take a catastrophe. Would I do it in an NCAA game? - helllllll no. My point was the age of the child involved and my belief that it was a distraction - thus I acted.

I disagree, it is not your concern. You are not a coach, a team member or a parent. The sole purpose for your being on the field is to umpire the ball game.

As well intentioned as I am sure your action is meant to be, it just isn't you place to do this.

There is no doubt that parents are the bane of youth sports. However, that is the coaching staff's issue, not that of a game official. If the coach believed it affected the player's ability to participate in the game, then s/he is the one who should make the decision, not you. If this were someone attached to the opposing team, I could see you raising the issue, but to the coach, not the fan or TD. You deal with the people on the field, let them deal with the people outside the fences.

JMHO,

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I disagree, it is not your concern. You are not a coach, a team member or a parent. The sole purpose for your being on the field is to umpire the ball game.

As well intentioned as I am sure your action is meant to be, it just isn't you place to do this.

There is no doubt that parents are the bane of youth sports. However, that is the coaching staff's issue, not that of a game official. If the coach believed it affected the player's ability to participate in the game, then s/he is the one who should make the decision, not you. If this were someone attached to the opposing team, I could see you raising the issue, but to the coach, not the fan or TD. You deal with the people on the field, let them deal with the people outside the fences.

JMHO,

WOW, I refuse to allow a small child to be deriled (sp) on a field that I am umpiring on. I took the proper steps to make sure it didn't continue. I talked to the TD who escorted the lady off the property. If the TD wanted to handle the situation differently, that was his perogative. After the game the grandparents of the little girl thanked me for taking the action that I took. I make no apologies for the actions that I took and would take them again today if faced with the same situation. My concern is for the child's safety as well as safes and outs. If you don't feel that's your concern too - I think we need to refocus. Again, if I have a girl that has her attention focused elsewhere, she's in danger when other kids are hitting balls at her. At least that's MHO.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Would you take the same action if, as the pitcher was beggining her delivery:

a boy was talking to her?
a coach was screaming at her?
a team mate was screaming at her?
a grand parent was trying to talk to her?

If not, why not? Cannot these all be equally distracting as a parent screaming at the child?

I don't need to refocus. When I walk on a field, I know why I am there, to umpire a ball game by the rules of the given sanctioning body.

And I have no problem letting the teams take care of themselves, that's why there is adult supervision.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Would you take the same action if, as the pitcher was beggining her delivery:

a boy was talking to her?
a coach was screaming at her?
a team mate was screaming at her?
a grand parent was trying to talk to her?

If not, why not? Cannot these all be equally distracting as a parent screaming at the child?

I don't need to refocus. When I walk on a field, I know why I am there, to umpire a ball game by the rules of the given sanctioning body.

And I have no problem letting the teams take care of themselves, that's why there is adult supervision.

I wouldn't stop a play to take care of the situation, no. This took place between innings. Someone trying to "talk" to her is much, much different than a person yelling obsenities at her. I could visibly see the effect on her and her distraction. Funny how this started about unruly parents. I've only had one this bad and took the necessary steps to fix the problem. I also handled it properly. I'm sorry you don't approve Mike, but I will not sit there and allow a little child to take that abuse - NEVER. It may be a HTBT, but if you were there, I honestly don't think you would have ignored the problem either - at least I hope not.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

I wouldn't stop a play to take care of the situation, no. This took place between innings. Someone trying to "talk" to her is much, much different than a person yelling obsenities at her. I could visibly see the effect on her and her distraction. Funny how this started about unruly parents. I've only had one this bad and took the necessary steps to fix the problem. I also handled it properly. I'm sorry you don't approve Mike, but I will not sit there and allow a little child to take that abuse - NEVER. It may be a HTBT, but if you were there, I honestly don't think you would have ignored the problem either - at least I hope not.

Ah ... the ever present danger of "other girls hitting balls at her" ... "between innings". It is all beginning to make sense now. Is it starting to make sense to the rest of you yet?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Ah ... the ever present danger of "other girls hitting balls at her" ... "between innings". It is all beginning to make sense now. Is it starting to make sense to the rest of you yet?

A distracted player is a distracted player - you wanna take that chance have at it . . . bottom line is this - I did what I did and would do it again faced with the same circumstances. I'm sure you are an awesome umpire, although I have nothing to base that on, other than discussions here. You wouldn't make the same call - your choice. I think you would be wrong to allow that behavior to continue and possibly have an effect on the game. In my heart I made the correct call. I have no regrets and am not ashamed of what I did.

Do you umpire with that same chip on your shoulder?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

A distracted player is a distracted player - you wanna take that chance have at it . . . bottom line is this - I did what I did and would do it again faced with the same circumstances. I'm sure you are an awesome umpire, although I have nothing to base that on, other than discussions here. You wouldn't make the same call - your choice. I think you would be wrong to allow that behavior to continue and possibly have an effect on the game. In my heart I made the correct call. I have no regrets and am not ashamed of what I did.

Do you umpire with that same chip on your shoulder?

Now why would you think I had ANY chip on my shoulder.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Now why would you think I had ANY chip on my shoulder.

Just seems like you do. If you don't please accept my most humble apologies!

[scottk_61]

I have waited to comment on this thread jsut to see what or how it is dealt with by others.

Everyone is right that an off field issue doesn't belong to the umpires.
But then again it does.................................

Here is an easy and simple way to deal with the issue that keeps you where you need to be and the players safe.

If you have a fan or parent that is causing a problem,
and you are aware of it
and it is affecting a player's ability to participate in a game.

THEN, stop play
Call the site administrator/TD/Park Manager/League Officer
or the home teams coach

Simply tell them the problem and that in your opinion it is effecting the game or the players safety.
Finish with "Until the problem is taken care of, we have no game."

Then walk away from the fence and talk with your partner or get the coaches together and tell them why as a concern for safety or fair play the game won't continue with PROBLEM X outside the fence.

It usually gets taken care of real quickly.

We cannot say that a distraction outside of the fence is not our concern because it is.
We pay attention to
rain approaching
lightening
car lights in the batters face from the parking lot

Use some common sense and don't interject yourself into the situation anymore than is absolutely necessary.