|
|||
"If you don't call/enforce the IF, you are putting the defense at a disadvantage."
or offense?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be. |
|
|||
Quote:
ASA expects it's umpires to call the IF; if they don't they may be placing the runners in jepordy. Rule 1 Infield Fly states that "the umpire shall immediately declare infield fly. . . . . . ." It doesn't say "may" or "could" or "should'a" - it says shall. So if the umpire fails to call a the IF, and if runners assume they have to advance, and get tagged out, then the umpire should call the batter out, and return the runners that he put in jepordy by failing to call the IF. NFHS specifically states that the batter is out whether the IF is called or not. Still, failure to make the call could put runners in jepordy and I would be inclined to follow the ASA position and return any runners tagged out. WMB Oh, BTW - before any ASA umpires hurt their fingers pounding on the keyboard to refute my statement, please read your casebook (8.2.35). |
|
|||
Quote:
The last thing on the mind of the defense in this case is trying to get a cheap double play...chances are they're just trying make sure they catch the ball. |
|
|||
I do not agree with those who take the position that the runners are responsibile for knowing the game situation and therefore treat an uncalled IF as if it were a called IF. That makes no sense to me (as WMB says, at least in ASA - but I would state it more to my point - at least under any rules that allow the IF to be called after-the-fact, as ASA does).
Do not forget... there are two component to the IF: 1) The game situation (force at 3rd, less than 2 outs), and 2) A fly ball that in the umpire's judgment can be caught with ordinary effort by an infielder. The runners cannot get inside the umpire's head, nor can they substitute their own judgment for his. If the IF is not called, their only choice is to advance, because they are now forced to advance. If the IF is called after-the-fact, rule 10-6-C (ASA) provides the umpire with the responsibility for fixing the fact that his delayed call placed the runners in jeopardy by forcing them to run. Assuming the judgment was correct in the OP situation (ordinary effort and all that), the actions by the umpires was correct (assuming ASA).
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Larry Ledbetter NFHS, NCAA, NAIA The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop. |
|
|||
No, I am saying I would (in addition to enforcing the IF) correct the jeopardy I placed the runners in with the late call. That is, return runners who attempted to advanced under the forced to advance situation and were tagged out.
Obviously, force outs no longer stand (since the IF removed the force). These situations are HTBT, but in general, the "needs to know the situation" principle only applies up to when umpire judgment comes in. At that point, there is no "situation" to know.
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
Quote:
Why the infield fly is not being called would be the determining factor for the runner on whether they should take off or not. So, if the runner does not know why the IFF was not called, how can he/she be expected to know whether they should be running or not?
__________________
"Booze, broads, and bullsh!t. If you got all that, what else do you need?"." - Harry Caray - |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Larry Ledbetter NFHS, NCAA, NAIA The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop. |
|
|||
I agree with John. It didnt land in front of F6 like Scott claims, the OP says "near" F6. Define "near" in this sitch that wasnt full of details--did it land close to, but behind F6?.
True, the IF doesnt have to be called to be in effect, but I will judge, after the fact, whether it is one - based on "ordinary effort" which factors in weather conditions, wind, rain, ect. |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain. |
|
|||
Infield Fly
I have been lurking and watching for a while. I am really moved to ask those of you who have said that if you made the call late and runners were put out subsequent to having been placed in jeopardy by your "mistake", that you would try to make them whole and return them to the base they left. In that same situation, had the runners made it to the next base without being put out, would you also return them to their previous bases respectively. I don't think so, therefore, you can't undo the out, legitimately. (IMHO)
Please help me to understand the difference. Duane |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Larry Ledbetter NFHS, NCAA, NAIA The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good when you stop. |
Bookmarks |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Too late for me, but.... | justacoach | Basketball | 10 | Mon May 29, 2006 01:28pm |
Infield Fly Call | sm_bbcoach | Baseball | 11 | Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:23am |
Erroneous Infield Fly Call | whistleone | Softball | 5 | Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:10pm |
Infield Fly if you don't call it immediately | FUBLUE | Softball | 19 | Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:16am |
late hit | F C E | Football | 5 | Thu Oct 31, 2002 09:32pm |