ASA Rules - No slide at the plate.. is ball dead ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

WHY THE .... CAN'T WE PUT THE MUST SLIDE NONSENSE TO DEATH???


It might be the most asked and over-discussed non-rule on earth.

I thought the most discussed non-rule was the "hands are part of the bat" nonsense?!?!

Hey, can we talk about the black being part of the plate next?

[hotmatt]

I thought the most discussed non-rule was the "hands are part of the bat" nonsense?!?!

Hey, can we talk about the black being part of the plate next?

I'm still stuck on "ties go to the runner"

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by hotmatt

I'm still stuck on "ties go to the runner"

A Tie DOES go to the runner......If the ball doesnt beat him/her to the bag...what do you have?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yes, I know it exists in LL, but that's a very rare book here.

Actually, the LL rule is basically the same as in NF - the runner must slide OR avoid contact.

[hotmatt]

A Tie DOES go to the runner......If the ball doesnt beat him/her to the bag...what do you have?

How is the runner beating the ball to the bag a tie?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by hotmatt

How is the runner beating the ball to the bag a tie?

To put out a runner, the ball must beat the runner to the bag. If the runner and ball both get there at the same time, the ball did not BEAT the runner, hence the runner is safe, by rule.

[CecilOne]

So, we're back to the general list of myths, including that "tie goes to the runner" is not a myth.

Any ideas on how to kill them off?

How about that memory eraser in "Men In Black"? Maybe we could find one for "Men In Blue".

[Fozzie]

In ASA, Rule 8-7-C

When, On a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, touches the ball to the base or tags the runner [B]before[B] the runner reaches base.

Mike, is of course, right.

Fozzie

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Fozzie

In ASA, Rule 8-7-C

When, On a force play, a fielder contacts the base while holding the ball, touches the ball to the base or tags the runner [B]before[B] the runner reaches base.

Mike, is of course, right.

Fozzie

Just a posting tip. Bracketing the word(s) with just [b] does not work unless the end code is [/b] Easier yet to select the word(s) and click the "B" or "U" or whatever at the top ofthe text window.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Getting back to the original post
1)How do you enforce the "Crash Rule" if the defensive player doesn't have possesion of the ball. The defense is guilty of Obstruction . Point 2 the league rule regarding sliding should also state that the play should end after the umpire calls the out otherwise you are penalizing the defense if the ball should get away from the fielder.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Getting back to the original post
1)How do you enforce the "Crash Rule" if the defensive player doesn't have possesion of the ball. The defense is guilty of Obstruction .

"Barrelling into a fielder can be considered interference or dangerous play which can result in being called out".

Since the League Rule doesn't include any statement regarding said fielder having possession of the ball, by what is listed alone, I still have a "crash" out, which takes precedence over OBR (ASA POE 14-D, minus the fielder having possession of the ball). This would, of course, be nice to have cleared up by the person that originally wrote and/or implemented said League Rules prior to this happening - and maybe, just to be crazy, actually include this in the printed League Rules.

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Point 2 the league rule regarding sliding should also state that the play should end after the umpire calls the out otherwise you are penalizing the defense if the ball should get away from the fielder.

Agreed, hence the dead ball out I was asserting in both cases in Post #12 - and again, possibly include this minor detail into the printed League Rules.

[mcrowder]

Cecil, because local leagues insist on mangling the current, perfectly working, interference and obstruction rules, adding something like the one above.

Man, what would we do if ASA or FED rules had rules that said certain events "can result in an out". Talk about vague!

I think the answer to the main question presented in the OP is that on a play like this, IF you have interference (whether by ASA rule or local rule), play should cease and runners should be placed. So if the umpire is ruling an out on this play (whether by ASA rule, which should have covered this sitch, or by the vaguely reworded local rule), then the umpire should be ceasing play.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Getting back to the original post
1)How do you enforce the "Crash Rule" if the defensive player doesn't have possesion of the ball. The defense is guilty of Obstruction . Point 2 the league rule regarding sliding should also state that the play should end after the umpire calls the out otherwise you are penalizing the defense if the ball should get away from the fielder.

Illegal baserunning like interference takes precedence over obstruction and negates it. An out on interference by a runner causes a dead ball.

[chicago11]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Illegal baserunning like interference takes precedence over obstruction and negates it. An out on interference by a runner causes a dead ball.

I don't believe you can have interference and obstuction on the same collision. It is one or the other. You can have obstruction with USC on the runner, but in that case you would have the runner safe and then ejected.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by chicago11

I don't believe you can have interference and obstuction on the same collision. It is one or the other. You can have obstruction with USC on the runner, but in that case you would have the runner safe and then ejected.

For discussion's sake:

If you have obstruction, with USC on the runner immediately following (and the runner has still not touched home plate), penalized by ejection, wouldn't it go something like this?:

1. OBR (delayed dead ball)
2. USC (dead ball) - (and runner is out?)
3. Runner is ejected
4. No run scored

I'm not going to let an ejected (and/or out) player perform any baserunning, so how would the run score, if they committed USC prior to touching home plate?