"Over the batter's head"?!

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

This past year, both NFHS and ASA have removed that language with the same explanation; it was unnecessary, and previously misinterpreted. Ball sharply and directly to the mitt; foul tip. Ball not directly to the mitt (has an arc, or mitt moves to the ball), caught foul ball.

And in both situations, batter out!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by NDblue

And in both situations, batter out!

Which "both"?

A foul tip is only an out if strike three.

[aceholleran]

Count was less than two strikes--otherwise batter is out for foul bunt.

BTW, "mitt moves to ball" can certainly be a foul tip, in LL anyway.

tah

[NDblue]

Foul tip directly into the catchers mitt is an "out" according to our state and regional UIC. This is ASA of course and why wouldn't it be an out? Batter swings, makes contact with the ball and it's caught before touching the ground. Why wouldn't that be an out no matter what the count is?

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Foul tip directly into the catchers mitt is an "out" according to our state and regional UIC. This is ASA of course and why wouldn't it be an out? Batter swings, makes contact with the ball and it's caught before touching the ground. Why wouldn't that be an out no matter what the count is?

Speaking ASA,
If it goes sharply and directly to the mitt (and the mitt doesn't move) it's just a foul tip. Batter out only if it is strike 3.

Why? Because the ASA rule book says so.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Foul tip directly into the catchers mitt is an "out" according to our state and regional UIC. This is ASA of course and why wouldn't it be an out? Batter swings, makes contact with the ball and it's caught before touching the ground. Why wouldn't that be an out no matter what the count is?

A "foul tip" cannot be an out unless the batter has two strikes at the TOP.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Foul tip directly into the catchers mitt is an "out" according to our state and regional UIC.

Really? Walt Stack says this? A bit hard to believe.

Originally Posted by NDblue

This is ASA of course and why wouldn't it be an out? Batter swings, makes contact with the ball and it's caught before touching the ground. Why wouldn't that be an out no matter what the count is?

Why? Because the rule says it is a strike and a live ball, so it is not an out unless it is strike 3. ASA Rule 7-4-D.

[Dakota]

Well, that was quick!

[NDblue]

When I get back from vacation, I'll get more into this...

[bkbjones]

From the April 2006 Clarifications/Plays page at www.softball.org/umpires/index.asp

Starting this season, 2006, the reference of the

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by NDblue

When I get back from vacation, I'll get more into this...

How much more can you get into? It's pretty clear and I believe it's the same in all rulesets.

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Because the rule says it is a strike and a live ball, so it is not an out unless it is strike 3. ASA Rule 7-4-D.

Well, it's not a live ball in SP w/o stealing and I will bring this up to our state UIC who can bring it up to our regional UIC. Don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just repeating what I was told by people that are supposed to be in the know. I still think it should be an out no matter what the count is.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Well, it's not a live ball in SP w/o stealing and I will bring this up to our state UIC who can bring it up to our regional UIC. Don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just repeating what I was told by people that are supposed to be in the know. I still think it should be an out no matter what the count is.

good save
lol

Ask your regional UIC about whether its a live ball in any real game though.

Even in SP w/o stealing.. a foul tip is only an out with 2 strikes...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Well, it's not a live ball in SP w/o stealing and I will bring this up to our state UIC who can bring it up to our regional UIC. Don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just repeating what I was told by people that are supposed to be in the know. I still think it should be an out no matter what the count is.

Speaking ASA

A foul tip is a foul tip regardless of the game being played. The effect of the foul tip is different, but I can assure you that it can never be an out unless the batter had two strikes at the time of the pitch.

The following is from the April Rules Clarification on the ASA Umpire's web page:


ASA Foul Ball / Foul Tip for 2006


Additional Clarification
The ASA Foul Ball / Foul Tip 2006 Rule Change Clarification appeared in the January 2006 Edition of the Rules Clarifications and Plays. However, because of umpire comments and questions received during Association Rules Clinics and National Umpire Schools, five words have been added to the last sentence of the first paragraph to further clarify the difference between a foul ball and a foul tip. The new first paragraph of the 2006 Rule Clarifications and Plays – January Edition should now read as follows (change is in italics and underlined):

Starting this season, 2006, the reference of the “height of the batter’s head” has been removed from the rulebook from the Foul Ball and Foul Tip definitions. This allows more opportunity for the catcher to obtain “outs” by catching foul batted balls the same as the first and third base person who is playing in. Umpires now only need to judge whether the ball moves from the bat “sharply” and “directly” versus a ball that has a “perceptible” arc and/or the catcher moves the glove to catch the ball after contact with the bat.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by lala0453

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