Dead Ball Appeal

[rwest]

Situation:

R1 at 2nd. B2 hits a double scoring R1. However, R1 missed 3rd when going home. B2 ends up on 2nd when the catcher who had the ball enters the dug out to tag R1.

Whats your call?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Dead ball for catcher carrying ball into dead ball territory, B2 awarded one base from position at time ball enters dead ball territory (assumably 3rd in your post). The live ball appeal has ended, but a dead ball appeal can still be honored to rule R1 out and take the run off the board.

[BuggBob]

Isn't that an Old Yogi Berra story? In the story the runner missed the plate and Yogi entered the dugout to tag him out, only he couldn't remember who was therunner, so he would tag someone and look at the ump, tag someone else and look at the ump, finally one of the guys breaks from the bench and runs for the plate. Yogi threw the ball to one of the other players who was covering home and the tag was applied, the out was recorded, the run was removed.

Interesting call Steve, Not what I would have called, until now as I think you are right and it is the correct call. Now all I need is for this to happen in a game.

Bugg

[mcrowder]

As posted, I have BR on 3rd and THEN an out.

Why? Catcher carried a live ball into dead ball territory... BR to 3rd. Then F2 made what to me seems like an unmistakeable dead ball appeal (it's dead now that he entered DBT) on the runner. I don't think F2's actions can be construed as anything but an appeal. So I now have R1 out and the run off the board.

Now... the OP starts the thread with the phrase, "Dead Ball Appeal". If this was meant to imply that for some reason the ball was made dead (someone called time?) before F2 followed R1 into the dugout, then all we have is an out on R1, and a brief explanation to F2 that he doesn't have to go into the other team's dugout for this, and probably shouldn't to avoid any potential problems.

[AtlUmpSteve]

I'm not big on making a specific formula for accepting a clear dead ball appeal, but here's a case where we cannot accept the appeal; yet. First, it was a bad live ball appeal which made the ball dead, but, then we cannot accept or rule on a dead ball appeal until all running responsibilities are completed. Since we have an awarded base as a result of a ball being taken out of the field, we have to 1) hesitate and allow a runner to complete running, so I guess we have to allow R1, if s/he is so inclined, to attempt to retrace steps and touch 3rd (although that would not eliminate the out on appeal); then, 2) we must award bases as a result of the ball being carried into dead ball territory. Then, and not before, can we honor a dead ball appeal. At that point, I would probably say something like "now, what is it you were saying before?".

All this according to ASA POE#1. I agree that this is standing on ceremony, as the outcome is predetermined, but, sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

[Mountaineer]

Steve, I agree with your original post. How can R1 retrace her steps when she has already entered the dugout? Maybe I'm missing something here.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Steve, I agree with your original post. How can R1 retrace her steps when she has already entered the dugout? Maybe I'm missing something here.

By rule, R1 can't eliminate the missed base once R1 leaves the field of play, but we still must allow all runners to complete their running responsibilities before awarding bases, and then before accepting a dead ball appeal.

You know, and I know, that on appeal, the runner must be out, but, I think we can consider the liklihood that R1 will want to try to retrace his/her steps. My point is that we have to let her, because R1 (and probably R1's coach) thinks R1 has to return at that point. If that foolishly deters the defense from making the appeal, so be it; but, before we award bases, we have to let them finish running. And the dead ball appeal has to wait for all that to be completed; we cannot respond to the effort of F2, despite it being clear what F2 intends.

In most cases, simply wasting time, but that is the process.