How would you rule?

[justmom]

[QUOTE=tcblue13]1. If Charles is tagged out between 1st and 2nd. Do you still have the option of the appeal for missing the base?
2. If yes, Is that in all rulsets? (please cite FED rule # or #'s)

My FED book is 2004...There is an appendix at the back of the book titled "Appeal Procedures and Guidelines". Methods (Paragraph 2a). An appeal may be made during a live ball by the fielder in possession of the ball touching the base missed or left too soon on a caught fly ball, or by tagging the runner committing the violation if she is still on the playing field (even if she is standing on another base). (I added the emphasis).

In tagging Charles, defense successfully made the appeal for the 2nd out, removing any force at 2B. So, tagging Baker off second would be a timing play for the third out. Run had already scored per OP, so run would count.

I would be interested to know if the FED book updates still have this wording in the back of the book?

[greymule]

If Charles is tagged out between 1st and 2nd. Do you still have the option of the appeal for missing the base?

Every code I know of allows the option of a fourth or even a fifth out on appeal if such an out is advantageous to the defense, even if that runner had been put out on another play. That is, except (since 2003) ASA, since Charles did not score.

Play: Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B, Charles on 1B, 2 out. Daniels gets a hit off the fence. Abel scores, Baker scores but missed home, Charles scores. Daniels missed 1B and is out at home for out #3. The defense appeals Baker's miss of home. Fourth out. Baker's run is nullified. Then the defense appeals Daniels' miss of 1B. Fifth out, no runs score. If course, the appeal on Baker is not necessary, since a fourth-out appeal on Daniels at 1B would nullify all runs anyway.

That's every code I know, except ASA since 2003.

On that play ASA would nullify Baker's run for missing home but not Charles's run, since the appeal on Daniels was on a runner who did not score. Now whether ASA still permits the appeal at 1B for the purposes of turning Daniels' triple into an out at 1B is another story.

Of course, there are many codes. I don't know them all.

[celebur]

One thing that I'm confused with is the appeal for the BR missing 1B. Is this considered a force out? Or just an appeal for a missed base and hence a timing play?

Speaking Softball Canada, additional outs may be made so long as they are to remove runs--it doesn't matter whether the runner being appealed actually scored or not. No runners may score if a preceding runner is the 3rd or later out, and no runners may score if the 3rd or later out is a force. So in the OP, the appeal for the BR missing first base would only nullify the run if the appeal is considered a force out. If not, it's a timing play, and since no succeeding runner scored, there is no point to the appeal. Game over.

Originally Posted by greymule

Play: Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B, Charles on 1B, 2 out. Daniels gets a hit off the fence. Abel scores, Baker scores but missed home, Charles scores. Daniels missed 1B and is out at home for out #3. The defense appeals Baker's miss of home. Fourth out.

Again speaking Softball Canada, this fourth out would negate both Baker's run AND Charles' run.

[blu_bawls]

Originally Posted by celebur

Or just an appeal for a missed base and hence a timing play?

It is an appeal play and not a force. When the runner passed the base the force was dropped and he/she can only be called out on appeal.

A runner is assumed to have touched a base once they have passed it. They would be called out for missing the base but runs scored prior to the appeal would not be nullified.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by greymule

Along the lines of the play discussed in "Here is one that caused a stir this weekend," how would you rule on the following plays?:


Play B

Same play, except that after Charles is tagged out and Abel scores, Baker remains at 2B and does not budge. F3 stands near 2B waiting to tag Baker when she leaves the bag. The offensive coach, having figured out what is going on, orders Baker to keep her foot on 2B.

Where do we go from here?

I think I am going home cause the game is over. Tie game bottom of seventh, charles is tagged for the second out, Abel scored giving the home team the lead, Baker advanced from first to second and isn't forced to go to third, seems to me the game is over.