Retroactive Interference?

[WestMichBlue]

OK, we are not supposed to wait for the end of the play to call interference. But what do you call for the following?

Bunt down 3B line, just in foul territory. F5 comes to the ball and is bumped by R1 going home. Now what? Do you have any reason to kill the play? If you do, then you have a foul ball and you cannot call interference on a foul ground ball.

What if you let the play continue and the ball rolls into fair territory and dies. Now you have a fair ball. And F5 is complaining that she was prevented from touching the ball while it was still in foul territory, knowing that she had no play on the B-R.

What is your (ASA, NFHS, NCAA) call?

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

OK, we are not supposed to wait for the end of the play to call interference. But what do you call for the following?

Bunt down 3B line, just in foul territory. F5 comes to the ball and is bumped by R1 going home. Now what? Do you have any reason to kill the play? If you do, then you have a foul ball and you cannot call interference on a foul ground ball.

What if you let the play continue and the ball rolls into fair territory and dies. Now you have a fair ball. And F5 is complaining that she was prevented from touching the ball while it was still in foul territory, knowing that she had no play on the B-R.

What is your (ASA, NFHS, NCAA) call?

WMB

Speaking ASA

HTBT. If the fielder was actually prevented from fielding the ball in foul territory, it's a foul ball. If it was intentional, it's a foul ball and I'll probably need another player to return to 3B.

If the fielder was not making any effort to field the ball at the time of the "bump", it's nothing.

As stated, HTBT

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

HTBT. If the fielder was actually prevented from fielding the ball in foul territory, it's a foul ball.

Why is it foul? Did you call Dead Ball while the ball was still in foul territory? If yes, what rule; what is your interpretation? If no, then the ball eventually rolled fair and settled (between home and 3B). Why isn't this a fair ball?

The word "bump" is meant to convey contact which is neither malicious (flagrant) nor intentional. The result is the contact was to knock F5 off balance such that she was not able to touch the ball before it rolled fair.

If the fielder was not making any effort to field the ball at the time of the "bump", it's nothing.

Is "fielding" the ball in foul territority "a play?" The fielder is obviously not trying to get an out; she is trapping to ball foul because she cannot get the out. By doing so, the defense gains a strike on the batter, and another opportunity to get an out. (And in my situation, to prevent a run from scoring.)

So - the question: "If a runner hinders or prevents a defender from fielding a ball in foul territory, is that interference?"

If yes - what rule?

If no, and the ball rolls fair, then the defense is disavantaged by the action of the runner which allowed a base hit, and a run to score. How do you fix that? Or is it just part of the game - play on!

WMB

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Why is it foul?

It's dead because we had interference. Interference is a dead ball.

Did you call Dead Ball while the ball was still in foul territory? If yes, what rule; what is your interpretation?

Uh... go read the interference rule - this sitch is specifically stated. It is interference when a fielder is interfered while fielding a ball. The penalty if the ball is foul is simply a foul ball. By rule.

If no, then the ball eventually rolled fair and settled (between home and 3B). Why isn't this a fair ball?

Because it was dead while in foul territory - everything after that never happened.

So - the question: "If a runner hinders or prevents a defender from fielding a ball in foul territory, is that interference?"

Yes, by rule.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Uh... go read the interference rule - this sitch is specifically stated. It is interference when a fielder is interfered while fielding a ball.

Uh . . . I did. ASA 8-7.J " When the runner interferes: (1) with a fielder attempting to field a batted FAIR BALL.


WMB

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Uh . . . I did. ASA 8-7.J " When the runner interferes: (1) with a fielder attempting to field a batted FAIR BALL.
WMB

Good point - my bad ... it's the FOUL BALL definition where this is found.

[noobie]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Uh . . . I did. ASA 8-7.J " When the runner interferes: (1) with a fielder attempting to field a batted FAIR BALL.

Far be it from me to correct anyone (this isn't a correction, really), but the 2006 rule book (ASA 8-7.J(1)) clarifies this one:

"(1) With a fielder attempting to field a batter fair ball or a foul fly ball" (emphasis mine)

There was a subtle wording change in 8-7.J that made neither the summary of rules changes and is not highlighted in the book I have (grrrr). I could summarize it best by saying that the 2005 J(1) and J(2) rules were combined in J(1), and all the following 2005 numbered paragraphs got decremented by one. The old J(2) made reference to a fly ball over foul territory.

The sitch implies bunted ball was rolling on the ground at the time of the bump. I got FOUL BALL, no INT (from the safety of my home office with two rule books in my hand).

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Why is it foul? Did you call Dead Ball while the ball was still in foul territory? If yes, what rule; what is your interpretation? If no, then the ball eventually rolled fair and settled (between home and 3B). Why isn't this a fair ball?

ASA Rule 1 - The Definitions.
FOUL BALL. A foul ball is a batted ball that:
D. While over foul territory, a runner interferes with a defensive player attempting to field a batted ball.

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Is "fielding" the ball in foul territority "a play?" The fielder is obviously not trying to get an out; she is trapping to ball foul because she cannot get the out. By doing so, the defense gains a strike on the batter, and another opportunity to get an out. (And in my situation, to prevent a run from scoring.)

This is definiltey a play. Fielders practice touching the ball the moment it is in foul territory. The runner impeded the fielder from making a play on a batted ball.

My call is DEAD BALL BATTER OUT on INT in foul territory, all runners return to base at time of pitch, AND a strike on the batter.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

My call is DEAD BALL BATTER OUT on INT in foul territory, all runners return to base at time of pitch, AND a strike on the batter.

How can you call a player out for interfering with a ball with which the defense cannot put out anyone?

Tony, what would you do if F5 threw her glove and hit the ball to keep it foul?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

My call is DEAD BALL BATTER OUT on INT in foul territory, all runners return to base at time of pitch, AND a strike on the batter.

....................

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

My call is DEAD BALL BATTER OUT on INT in foul territory, all runners return to base at time of pitch, AND a strike on the batter.

let's forget that you can't call this batter out....

How can you have the batter out AND call a strike on the batter ... which batter, the next one?

Of course, this is merely a foul ball, even if intent is ruled.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

let's forget that you can't call this batter out....

How can you have the batter out AND call a strike on the batter ... which batter, the next one?

Of course, this is merely a foul ball, even if intent is ruled.

Typo on my original post. I meant that I would call the runner closest to home out and a strike on the batter.


Reason being is that by rule this was a foul ball, and therefore you cannot award the batter first base as would normally be done on runner INT.

[justmom]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

And F5 is complaining that she was prevented from touching the ball while it was still in foul territory, knowing that she had no play on the B-R.
WMB

If you called the foul ball as soon as the "interference" happened, like it says in the definition of a foul ball, then F5 couldn't complain. Because "knowing that she had no play on the B-R", the "play" she would have been attempting was trapping the ball in foul territory in order to get the foul ball call. So, she would have gotten the call, just not an extra out for the interference by the runner.

On the question of a runner interfering with a fly ball over foul territory: I keep wanting to think that a runner could interfere with the fielder (or intentionally touch the ball) and prevent the fielder from making a catch and an out. If the fielder dropped the ball because of the interference, it would just be a foul ball, and the runner could go back, and the batter would not be out because there would be no catch. So, you have to do something for a penalty in that situtation. On a ground ball, the runner interfering would most likely only cause the ball to continue to roll and go fair which is what the defense does not want. So on an attempt to catch a fly ball, the defense is attempting to get an out. On an attempt to trap a ball foul, the defense is attempting to get a foul ball call. So the rules in both situations seem to ultimately give the defense what it wants. I don't know if that is why the rules are written as such or not, but at least it is a plausible theory?

So what kind of an out are we going to get when the ball is on the ground in foul territory

You said this was a bunted ball; so batter would be out if it is 3rd strike. (Anyway, at least I have an answer)