Catch ?

[debeau]

A batted ball is fielded and gets caught in the webbing of a fielders glove , they cant get it out so they throw the whole glove to f3 to get the out .
Is it an out ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by debeau

A batted ball is fielded and gets caught in the webbing of a fielders glove , they cant get it out so they throw the whole glove to f3 to get the out .
Is it an out ?

Speaking ASA

Yes, it is as long as F3 obtains complete control of the ball and/or glove with the ball imbedded in the webbing while touching the base.

[NDblue]

Yep, what Mike said is true.

[debeau]

Ponder this .
A catch occurs when a thrown or batted ball is held by a hand or glove .
It is not a catch if the ball is prevented from from falling by equipment .
The catch is only completed when the ball is in the hands or glove .

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by debeau

Ponder this .
A catch occurs when a thrown or batted ball is held by a hand or glove .
It is not a catch if the ball is prevented from from falling by equipment .
The catch is only completed when the ball is in the hands or glove .

Your point? The ball is still in the glove and the glove is in someones hand. What's the problem?

[debeau]

A ball must be in the hand or glove
A ball in a glove in a glove is not
Isnt a glove equipment , therefore a ball prevented from becoming loose because of it being in equipment is not a catch .

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by debeau

Ponder this .
A catch occurs when a thrown or batted ball is held by a hand or glove .
It is not a catch if the ball is prevented from from falling by equipment .
The catch is only completed when the ball is in the hands or glove .

This is a contradiction. You want the glove to be considered equipment for the purposes of arguing a "no catch", yet you define a catch as when the ball is held in the hands or "glove". You cannot have it both ways. A little common sense, if you please.

If you wish to ignore common sense, please note the last sentence of the definition of catch is the ISF rulebook (02-05):

NOTE: A ball which strikes anything other than a defensive player while it is in flight is ruled the same as if it struck the ground.

Using your ponderence above, this means that every time a player attempts to catch a fly ball, they may not use a glove because a glove which is a piece of equipment is not a defensive player therefore the ball must be considered to have touched the ground the instant it contacts the glove.

Now, try selling that to anyone.

[debeau]

That was a bite .
Mike ,I, and I assume you are the same , do not blindly accept the rules and definitions because I am told to .
I look at the definitions and dissect them ( maybe too much ) to understand them and this makes me understand the rules more .
If something doesnt seem right , I question it .
Thrown ball only
In this question I am not arqueing a no catch , I am trying to get discussion going and I have , although in a small way .
Note that I am just taking parts of the definition out of the rule book , not makeing up my own .
My point is :A catch is when the ball is the hands or glove , is it a catch when the ball is in another glove held by the fielders glove .
Does the sentence in the definitions " prevented from falling to the ground by equipment not encompass the 2nd glove " , it obviously does not mean the fielders glove.
I am talking about secondary equipment .
As F3 if another fielder jumps in to my arms to make an out on 1st is it out ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by debeau

That was a bite .
Mike ,I, and I assume you are the same , do not blindly accept the rules and definitions because I am told to .
I look at the definitions and dissect them ( maybe too much ) to understand them and this makes me understand the rules more .
If something doesnt seem right , I question it .
Thrown ball only
In this question I am not arqueing a no catch , I am trying to get discussion going and I have , although in a small way .
Note that I am just taking parts of the definition out of the rule book , not makeing up my own .
My point is :A catch is when the ball is the hands or glove , is it a catch when the ball is in another glove held by the fielders glove .

A catch is when the fielder can demonstrate complete control and/or a voluntary release of the ball. The fact that it is wedged in the webbing/fingers of another glove does not preclude any fielder from controling the ball.

Does the sentence in the definitions " prevented from falling to the ground by equipment not encompass the 2nd glove " , it obviously does not mean the fielders glove.
I am talking about secondary equipment .

However, that isn't what you said. Your discussion involved the glove and the glove only. Your looking for boogers that do not exist.[quote

As F3 if another fielder jumps in to my arms to make an out on 1st is it out ?[/QUOTE]

Not the same thing since the rules specifically address the person touching the base have possession of the ball which requires contol of the ball. A fielder can control and release a ball stuck in another glove. A fielder cannot contral and release a ball held by another fielder.

[debeau]

I realise I didnt make that clear after reading the threads .
Does it make any difference with a 2nd glove ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by debeau

I realise I didnt make that clear after reading the threads .
Does it make any difference with a 2nd glove ?

Speaking ASA

If the fielder has control of the ball and can show a voluntary release, it is considered a catch no matter how many gloves are involved.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

If the fielder has control of the ball and can show a voluntary release, it is considered a catch no matter how many gloves are involved.

Debeau, that is an interpretation from Henry Pollard, Assistant Director of Umpires for ISF (formerly same title with ASA). This used to be one of his personal clinic questions and conversations (ball stuck in glove, so glove and ball both thrown to F3).

[debeau]

Great !
Clear now no problems .
Now my search fo more " boogers"

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Debeau, that is an interpretation from Henry Pollard, Assistant Director of Umpires for ISF (formerly same title with ASA). This used to be one of his personal clinic questions and conversations (ball stuck in glove, so glove and ball both thrown to F3).

It is also an ASA case play. Case Play 1-16.

[gsf23]

What about FED rules? I know that in baseball the FED ruled that this is not a legal out. Did they also make the same change for softball?