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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 26, 2006, 07:12am
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Need suggestions

Two umpires system.
R1 on first base.
Release of the pitch and R1 goes for 2nd base attempting to steal.
Catcher’s throw goes to the outfield and R1 decides to stand up and continue her run towards 3rd base.
Again: defense’s throw goes over and the ball now is in foul territory, near the fence.
R1 goes on and try to get home plate. Finally defense make a valid play at home plate, with R1 sliding and defensive player tagging her, for a very close play.

I need help in order to know (according to the Systems used in USA or other) wich umpire is responsible for:
a) play on second base
b) play on third base
c) play at home plate

Every help will be greatly appreciated and much more if you can explain me WHY (good reasons) an umpire on THAT base is better than the other…

Ciao
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 07:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonella
Two umpires system.
R1 on first base.
Release of the pitch and R1 goes for 2nd base attempting to steal.
Catcher’s throw goes to the outfield and R1 decides to stand up and continue her run towards 3rd base.
Again: defense’s throw goes over and the ball now is in foul territory, near the fence.
R1 goes on and try to get home plate. Finally defense make a valid play at home plate, with R1 sliding and defensive player tagging her, for a very close play.

I need help in order to know (according to the Systems used in USA or other) wich umpire is responsible for:
a) play on second base
b) play on third base
c) play at home plate

Every help will be greatly appreciated and much more if you can explain me WHY (good reasons) an umpire on THAT base is better than the other…

Ciao
Speaking ASA.

Fast and Slow Pitch

The BU has the play at 2nd base. The PU has 3rd & home.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 08:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Speaking ASA.

Fast and Slow Pitch

The BU has the play at 2nd base. The PU has 3rd & home.
Wouldn't the PU have the runner to 3B with only 1 runner on base and the batter not getting a hit? The PU would have the runner at the plate. Why would the PU umpire go up the line to cover 3B in this situation?
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 09:32am
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The BU has play at 2nd and 3rd, PU play at plate -- Unless the PU takes the play at 3rd (communication is, as always, key), then the BU has the play at the plate, this means that once the play moves past second the BU must hustle in towards the plate to make the call. Then clean the plate before heading back to the A position.

Bugg
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 09:49am
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I've just discovered in Italy ASA way is the system used.
My doubt is: is PU in the best conditions to go back to HP and have the best position for a play (especially assuming the throw come from left foul terr.) - probably PU get an angle INSIDE the diamond to judge on thirda base. If so, the question is: should PU go back top HP running in fair territory?

Grazie
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuggBob
The BU has play at 2nd and 3rd, PU play at plate -- Unless the PU takes the play at 3rd (communication is, as always, key), then the BU has the play at the plate, this means that once the play moves past second the BU must hustle in towards the plate to make the call. Then clean the plate before heading back to the A position.

Bugg
I meant to asked wouldn't the BU would have the runner to 3B?
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 10:09am
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PU goes up the line to cover 3B because BU is now behind the play; BU is on the right field outfield side of 2nd when the ball is overthrown, and would be trailing the play, while PU can see the play at 3B develop and move up. BU would have coverage at 3B only if a wild pitch or passed ball kept PU pinned at HP; in that case, BU should "rim" with the runner making the turn, and read/listen for PU to call BU off. On this play, BU may be able to cut in, but would still be trailing, in most cases.

PU should start to the holding zone (rather than stand flat footed behind HP) once the catcher releases the throw, and PU has ended all responsibilities at HP (no batter interference). As the play turns to 3B, PU should ease down toward 3B, and cut inside in fair territory to make the call at 3B.

At some point, it becomes obvious that there is no play at 3B, and ball is now is left field foul territory. PU should drive off right foot, change direction back to HP, staying in fair territory (inside-out theory). Remembering that PU was perhaps 10' short of 3B, and that ideal calling position is perhaps 10' short of HP, PU has significantly less travel than runner.

ASA does not recommend BU covering HP in this situation; same as U1 does not rotate to cover HP when counter-rotated to the B slot in 3 umpire system. Cutting across the full diamond from outfield side of 2B to HP is not desirable; the sole exception may be if PU goes down. Otherwise PU should effectively cover both 3B and HP.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 10:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
PU goes up the line to cover 3B because BU is now behind the play; BU is on the right field outfield side of 2nd when the ball is overthrown, and would be trailing the play, while PU can see the play at 3B develop and move up. BU would have coverage at 3B only if a wild pitch or passed ball kept PU pinned at HP; in that case, BU should "rim" with the runner making the turn, and read/listen for PU to call BU off. On this play, BU may be able to cut in, but would still be trailing, in most cases.

PU should start to the holding zone (rather than stand flat footed behind HP) once the catcher releases the throw, and PU has ended all responsibilities at HP (no batter interference). As the play turns to 3B, PU should ease down toward 3B, and cut inside in fair territory to make the call at 3B.

At some point, it becomes obvious that there is no play at 3B, and ball is now is left field foul territory. PU should drive off right foot, change direction back to HP, staying in fair territory (inside-out theory). Remembering that PU was perhaps 10' short of 3B, and that ideal calling position is perhaps 10' short of HP, PU has significantly less travel than runner.

ASA does not recommend BU covering HP in this situation; same as U1 does not rotate to cover HP when counter-rotated to the B slot in 3 umpire system. Cutting across the full diamond from outfield side of 2B to HP is not desirable; the sole exception may be if PU goes down. Otherwise PU should effectively cover both 3B and HP.

Makes sense the way you explain it...thanks!
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 01:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Makes sense the way you explain it...thanks!
Sure, all I did was state what is in the ASA Umpire Manual and Steve gets all the credit for taking care of the crops!!!
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 01:45pm
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If you're working with a new partner and have not discussed this sitch, you had better go as Mike and Steve have said, or you may end up with 2 umpires at the same base (or none where one is needed!) This (and similar sitches) is one where discussion in pregame is helpful - and I have seen deviations that work, if discussed in advance.

All I can add to Mike and Steve's input is that as PU is coming home for the play at the plate, BU should be sliding toward third behind the play, in case this becomes a rundown. Next to having 0 or 2 umpires on a play, the worst thing that can happen on a weird play is for an umpire to be stuck with both ends of a rundown, and another umpire doing nothing.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 02:51pm
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When I am the PU, here is part of my pre-game with my partner before we get on the field:

"If there is only a runner at first, and you are in the B position, if there is a steal or a bunt and the runner for first tries for 3rd, I am going to be there ready to take the play at third. You can release the runner to me. If for some reason, there is a passed ball, and the runner from first tries to go for 3rd, I know it's my call, but try to be there in case I get tangled up behind the catcher and can't get down to third."

Every so often, I will get a umpire that lets me know if I go to third, he will plan to go home. I tell him, no - - - once he releases that runner to me at third, I will have the plays from there.
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 03:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump
Every so often, I will get a umpire that lets me know if I go to third, he will plan to go home. I tell him, no - - - once he releases that runner to me at third, I will have the plays from there.
And who is covering the trail runner at 2B?
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Old Fri May 26, 2006, 04:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
And who is covering the trail runner at 2B?
When they say this, I have realized they were talking about steals or situations where the BR was put out. If the BR arrives at 1st safely on a bunt, the BU is "stuck" at covering his bases and can't cover home... as he should not be planning to do in any cases.
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Old Sat May 27, 2006, 06:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Ump
When they say this, I have realized they were talking about steals or situations where the BR was put out. If the BR arrives at 1st safely on a bunt, the BU is "stuck" at covering his bases and can't cover home... as he should not be planning to do in any cases.
This is true, but at no time do the mechanics ever suggest the BU head home. What happens if, in this scenario, the throw to 3B is a good throw and R1 pulls up and tries to return to 2B? More than like, if the BU is going to cover the plate, they're already heading that way.

The PU, if using the proper mechanics, should be in perfect position to cover 3B and home.
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Old Mon May 29, 2006, 02:23am
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Learned a lot from ALL of you...
I cannot say how much I'm grateful this site exists.

Thank you everybody.

Ciao!
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