Two people on one base

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

At this point, the umpire should have killed everything and returned R2 to 1st base. Remaining infomation and questions are extraneous.

Why? Shouldn't the ump wait to see the outcome as long as all action is legal and not give either team (in this case, offense) an advantage?

[IRISHMAFIA]

No.................

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

No.................

OK, mind changed.

[mcrowder]

Once it is clear that defense is not going to do anything about this, kill it.

If the OFFENSE wakes up and BR tries to head back to 1st, you have an out on LBR. If the DEFENSE wakes up and tries to play on the runner, play on.

But if No One tries to fix it, we have to, and since you can't grant an out (no one has really done anything illegal), the only remedy is to send BR back to 1st.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Why is there an out on anyone (let alone LBR) if you've called time and BR then heads back to 1st? This is techincally no different than calling "time" with the BR one step off 1st base.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Why is there an out on anyone (let alone LBR) if you've called time and BR then heads back to 1st? This is techincally no different than calling "time" with the BR one step off 1st base.

Obviously there wouldn't be once TIME has been called. mcrowder was talking about if the offense sends the runner back while the ball is still live and F1 has the ball in the circle, not making a play. My guess is the OC wanted TIME to prevent the runner from making this dumb move on her own.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Gotcha. Thank you.

[GaryBarrentine]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If the OFFENSE wakes up and BR tries to head back to 1st, you have an out on LBR.

Please explain how you came to this conclusion and how you would backup this call.

Thanks

GaryB

[Dakota]

GaryB, did you see my answer to Hawkeye?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Thought I sent this earlier; must have hit a wrong button.

Mike has given the ASA ruling; once it is established neither side is making a play, kill the ball, and return the runner to the only base legally attained. If defense makes a play, play on; if offense leaves the base, LBR violation.

NFHS has given a different ruling; call the trail runner out, per Mary Struckhoff. No direct rule reference, as no rule actually applies. Her comment was that the runner has no legal right to the base; however, she neglects the rule requirement of the appropriate remedy, that the defense tag the runner who doesn't have the legal right to the base. Nonetheless, that is the NFHS official ruling.

[GaryBarrentine]

Tom,

Yes, I saw the response, but do not understand how R2 would be in voilaton of LBR if R2 started to return to 1st.

Here is my thinking about the situation. With the situation as described, R2 is liable to be put out if tagged, because R2 is not legally occupying a base. Since R2 is not legally occupying a base, R2 is technically off base between 1st and 2nd when the ball is received by F1 in the circle and LBR goes into effect. Why would the LBR not be applied as if R2 is off base between 1st and 2nd in this situation?

Thanks

GaryB

[tcblue13]

Doesn't calling R1 out after a subsequent pitch give the D an advantage? You are awarding them an out when they hosed the play?

[Dakota]

Once the defense indicates indifference to the situation (I would consider the DC instructing his pitcher to pitch - which the PU should not allow - as indifference), the PU should kill the play and return BR to 1B.

There is an ASA case play to back this up, but I don't have the case book with me at the moment.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Once the defense indicates indifference to the situation (I would consider the DC instructing his pitcher to pitch - which the PU should not allow - as indifference), the PU should kill the play and return BR to 1B.

There is an ASA case play to back this up, but I don't have the case book with me at the moment.

Play 10.8-3 (p. 108)
R1 on 2B, R2 on 1B when B3 hits the ball to F6. R1 holds up as R2 advances to 2B. F6 throws out B3 as both R1 and R2 stand on 2B. F6 throws out B3 as both R1 and R2 stand on 2B. The defense does not notice and the ball is thrown to the pitcher. No further play is apparent.

Ruling: The umpire should call "time." The runners should be awarded the base they would legally occupy. R2 is returned to 1B. (10-8H; 10-1)