Out or Obstruction?

[SRW]

A truly dead horse subject, but...

Typical "play at the plate" scenario. Runner rounds 3B, slides into HP. F2 catches the ball, makes the tag, collapses on the runner, stopping the runner's momentum. No OBS a this point. In the process of the play, while F2 is on the runner, the runner still has not yet touched HP, and the ball pops out. F2 reaches for it, while still lying on the runner. She grabs the ball, and touches the runner with it. The runner has not yet touched HP.

Do you have an out? Or do you have F2 OBS'ing the runner without the ball?

[justmom]

More info please....Is the runner making any attempt to move/struggle (whatever) toward the plate? Does she even realize that she hasn't touched the plate?

[CecilOne]

A bit of a trifecta.
If the sequence of the description ("slides into HP. F2 catches ") is correct, F2 was obstructing before all the rest.
If the sequence of the description ("makes tag, while on the runner, ball pops out ") is correct; the tag was made - runner out.
If neither of the above and "F2 reaches for it, while still lying on the runner.", and F2 never had control, OBS.

I think.

[SRW]

Ok, more info for you (it's clear in my head, why can't you understand it? )

The slide and the catch were both clean - my judgement is there was no OBS on this portion of the play. F2 was not blocking the plate without the ball prior to the runner's slide. F2 caught the ball, and applied the collapsing tag as the runner was sliding in, effectively stopping the runner's motion to the plate, and preventing the runner from even reaching HP.

As they tangle, motion towards the plate is stopped. F2 loses possession, reaches for the ball, and applies the tag a second time. The runner could not move because of F2 on top of her (and consequently probably did not know that the ball had come loose, so she didn't make any further attempt to get to HP.

[mcrowder]

Sounds again like the tag was made before possession was lost - if so, OUT.

If the contact was simultaneous to the ball coming out (i.e. caused it), then for this to be OBS, the runner must be trying to advance. If the runner is trying to get up, around, anything, and F2 is still lying on the runner reaching for the ball, OBS. If the runner is just sitting there oblivious (or perhaps if this drop - reach - pickup action was very brief, and runner didn't have time to realize she needed to continue moving), then there is no OBS.

[reccer]

Coach here,

The below is per 2006 HFHS rules site:

Definition of impeded:

(runner) has been slowed down or had path altered

If fielder's location limits runner's access to base or base path, and fielder does not yet have ball-- obstruction should be called.

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My comments:

Laying on top of the runner is definitely limiting their access to the plate. Defense had their chance, they dropped the ball. I don't think you need to be judging whether a 100 lb runner is wiggling underneath a 200 lb catcher. I've got obstruction, and a series of carefully worded questions getting ready for my protest.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SRW

A truly dead horse subject, but...

Typical "play at the plate" scenario. Runner rounds 3B, slides into HP. F2 catches the ball, makes the tag, collapses on the runner, stopping the runner's momentum. No OBS a this point. In the process of the play, while F2 is on the runner, the runner still has not yet touched HP, and the ball pops out. F2 reaches for it, while still lying on the runner. She grabs the ball, and touches the runner with it. The runner has not yet touched HP.

Do you have an out? Or do you have F2 OBS'ing the runner without the ball?

Unless F2 lost the ball AS SHE WAS MAKING THE TAG and not after making the initial tag, it is an OUT. No further information necessary.