Obstruction?

Gre144 · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 19, 2003, 06:52pm

R3 on third. Pitcher is in a full wind of position. R3 begins his steal towards home. F1 seeing this and without starting his preliminary motions, throws towards home without stepping off.

Was this a legal pitch or a balk? I think it was a balk but could you give me an explanation why?

Thanks,

Greg

bob jenkins · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Apr 19, 2003, 08:19pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Gre144
R3 on third. Pitcher is in a full wind of position. R3 begins his steal towards home. F1 seeing this and without starting his preliminary motions, throws towards home without stepping off.

Was this a legal pitch or a balk? I think it was a balk but could you give me an explanation why?

Thanks,

Greg

Hmm.. lte's see -- the pitcher on the rubber and complies with all requirements of 8.01 or 6-1 (depending on the cose)?

No, I can't give you an explanation of why you thought this was a balk.

southump · #3 (**permalink**) Sun Apr 20, 2003, 06:16pm

You said it. it was a quick pitch. so a balk

bob jenkins · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 21, 2003, 07:58am

Quote:

Originally posted by southump
You said it. it was a quick pitch. so a balk

I'm not disagreeing, but I wonder how you got that from the original description -- I see nothing in there that this was made with the obvious intent to catch the batter off balance.

Rich · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 21, 2003, 08:00am

It is not a quick pitch.

The pitcher is not required to "wind up." Jim Kaat stepped and threw for years without winding up.

The pitcher is not required to pitch the same way each time. He can wind on one pitch and not wind on another.

The quick pitch is also known as the quick return pitch, designed to sneak a pitch by a batter. It can happen as a ball is thrown back to the pitcher from another fielder and can also happen if a pitcher steps off the rubber and then steps back on a pitches before the batter is prepared (or without separating his hands).

What was originally described is not a balk as long as the pitcher stepped with his free foot and did not violate any provisions of 8.01 or 8.05.

Rich

southump · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Apr 21, 2003, 07:20pm

Bob, he said "without preliminary motions"so i got from that description the pitcher didnt pause at all, neither disengaged, just went . Just my oppinion

refman · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 06:23am

I'm wondering why the title of this thread is "obstruction"....and I'm still not convinced it was a balk either.

bob jenkins · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Apr 22, 2003, 08:02am

Quote:

Originally posted by southump
Bob, he said "without preliminary motions"so i got from that description the pitcher didnt pause at all, neither disengaged, just went . Just my oppinion

And, what "preliminary motions", or "pause" are required when pitching from the wind-up?

tucktheump · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Apr 23, 2003, 04:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by refman
I'm wondering why the title of this thread is "obstruction"....and I'm still not convinced it was a balk either.

yeah, where does obstruction fit into this thred?
if the pitcher came set, it is not a balk.

cowbyfan1 · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 04:51am

I would have to see it myself.. Sounds like it is a balk if he just went without a proper set (quick pitch) but if he was standing on the rubber in a set position then legal.

bob jenkins · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 08:34am

Quote:

Originally posted by cowbyfan1
I would have to see it myself.. Sounds like it is a balk if he just went without a proper set (quick pitch) but if he was standing on the rubber in a set position then legal.

The original post says, "Pitcher is in a full wind of position."

I assume that's just a typo -- and the poster meant "wind up" position.

thumpferee · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 09:53am

Rich, you said: The pitcher is not required to pitch the same way each time. He can wind on one pitch and not wind on another. Did you mean he can pitch from the wind up or stretch position? Cause I would disagree if you would let a pitcher, who has been winding up previously by stepping backwards during his windup, to all of a sudden with a runner stealing home go directly to home without stepping back! IMO, that is a quick pitch. BALK!

tucktheump · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 10:35am

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
Rich, you said: The pitcher is not required to pitch the same way each time. He can wind on one pitch and not wind on another. Did you mean he can pitch from the wind up or stretch position? Cause I would disagree if you would let a pitcher, who has been winding up previously by stepping backwards during his windup, to all of a sudden with a runner stealing home go directly to home without stepping back! IMO, that is a quick pitch. BALK!

there is nothing in the rule book that states " if the pitcher has been stepping back from the wind up position the entire game, then he must continue to do so."

simply put, if he comes set "a complete and discernible stop", and steps towards home plate while delivering the pitch, it is NOT a balk, nor is it a "quick pitch"

thumpferee · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 01:23pm

tucktheump,

Where do you get: if he comes set "a complete and discernible stop"? If you read the thread, he is pitching from the windup, NOT the stretch.

Two TOTALLY different situations! This was the thread.

R3 on third. Pitcher is in a full wind of position. R3 begins his steal towards home. F1 seeing this and without starting his preliminary motions, throws towards home without stepping off.

I know what the rule states, 6.1.Art 2

IMO, if the pitcher has been taking one step backward and one step forward previously, then all of a sudden just lifts his leg forward and delivers the pitch, it deceives the batter! BALK!

bob jenkins · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Apr 24, 2003, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by thumpferee
IMO, if the pitcher has been taking one step backward and one step forward previously, then all of a sudden just lifts his leg forward and delivers the pitch, it deceives the batter! BALK!

The "balk" rules are designed for actions that (illegally) decieve the runner -- deceiving the batter is not a balk.

He can join his hands one time and not join them the next.

He can pump once, pump twice, not pump at all.

He can throw sidearm, overhand, underhand, three-quarters.

The pitcher can step back once and not step back the next. "During delivery, he MAY lift his non-pivot foot in a step forward, OR in a step backward and a step forward ..."