LBR - Little League softball

[U of M Sam]

Looking for help. I must be overlooking the LBR in the LL softball rule book or it is not listed by itself (as in NFHS softball). I understand the LBR for NFHS softball and thought the LL rule was basicly the same. The NFHS LBR rule reads (in part) that a batter/runner may stop once......................although I do not find that text in the LL rules.
Please advise LL rule reference. Thank you.
Sam

[Az.Ump]

RULE 7.08
Any runner is out when -

(5) [Softball only] the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which that runner is entitled until the ball has been batted or reaches the batter or in Junior/Senior/Big League, the runner fails to keep contact with the base to which that runner is entitled until the ball has been released by the pitcher. When a runner is off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has the ball within the eight (8) foot radius circle, the runner must immediately attempt to advance to the next base or return to the base the runner is entitled. NOTE: If the pitcher has possession of the ball within the pitcher's circle, and is not making a play (a fake throw is considered a play), runners not in contact with their bases must immediately attempt to advance or return to base.
PENALTY: The ball is dead. "No Pitch" is declared, and the runner is out. Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked.

Fair Ball, January 2002
Situation 28: On a base on balls, the pitched ball is immediately returned to the pitcher in the eight-foot circle. The batter runs to first base, rounding the base in a move toward second base. While ten feet off the base, the runner stops and returns immediately to first base. The umpire calls the runner out. Correct or incorrect?
Ruling: Incorrect. The rules was not designed to allow the defense to get easy outs, although we, as umpires, sometimes try to use it that way. The defense has the responsibility to get the runner stopped at first base or to try and throw the runner out at first or second base. As long as the runner immediately attempts to advance or retreat after the stop, the runner has done nothing wrong.

It's all I could find.

Paul

[U of M Sam]

Thank you Paul.
I am familiar with RULE 7.08. The "Fair Ball January 2002" helps me more even though the LL rule does not read that the runner may "stop once". I have been properly using the rule for LL ball.
Sam

[CecilOne]

I bet "Eight (8) foot radius circle must be properly marked." causes some issues.

[BretMan]

Another point from a different discussion board where the ASA/FED Look Back Rule was being compared to the Little League rule:

Little League does not seem to have the same criteria as ASA/FED regarding WHEN the LBR goes into effect. For instance, one requirement of the ASA/FED rule is that the LBR is not in effect until the batter-runner touches first base.

I don't see that stipulation in the LL rule. In other words, their LBR goes into effect when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, REGARDLESS of whether the B/R has yet touched first base.

Not doing any LL games in my area, so I'll let any LL umpires comment as to the accuracy of this satement.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Another point from a different discussion board where the ASA/FED Look Back Rule was being compared to the Little League rule:

Little League does not seem to have the same criteria as ASA/FED regarding WHEN the LBR goes into effect. For instance, one requirement of the ASA/FED rule is that the LBR is not in effect until the batter-runner touches first base.

I don't see that stipulation in the LL rule. In other words, their LBR goes into effect when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, REGARDLESS of whether the B/R has yet touched first base.

Not doing any LL games in my area, so I'll let any LL umpires comment as to the accuracy of this satement.

My "first" thought was that the " in effect" timing only matters to the other runners. But what if (extreme example), the BR stops part way to 1st as a distraction to the pitcher while someone else steals. Without the "in effect" timing, would the BR be guilty of a LBR violation?

[Az.Ump]

U of M Sam, CecilOne, BretMan etc,

I posted on the Yahoo L.L. Umpires site this morning with our question on LBR and when circle rule goes into effect. I will post back as soon as I here somthing.

Paul

[Az.Ump]

I posted the following question over on the L.L. site.

In FED and ASA there is a rule referred to as the "look back rule". In
breif it requires that when the pitcher has the ball in the cirle and
is
not making a play that runners already advancing or the batter runner
(after reaching 1B) may stop once, but then must immediately advance or
return or be called out. I do not see a similar rule for L.L., although
the Fair Ball comment hints at one. Second in FED and ASA the circle
and
LBR rules do not go into affect if the batter becomes a BR, until the
BR
reaches 1B. If I understand the L.L. rule if we have R3 and BR walks
and
the ball is returned to F1 then R3 must immediately advance and cannot
wait until BR reaches 1B unless a play is made. Is this correct?

Thank you for your consideration,

Paul Baker


The following answer by Kevin Hunter summed up the unanimous response.

The NOTE on 7.08(5) is essentially equivalent to the FED/ASA "look back
rule." Although the wording is different, the intent is the same. You
will not find an explicit "they can reverse directly once" statement,
but that is implied in the phrase "immediately attempt to advance to
the
next base or return..." Essentially, if a runner is advancing and the
ball goes back to the pitcher, the runner may, at that point, decide to
advance or retreat (thus potentially reversing direction) but then has
to stick with that decision unless released by a play or attempted play
by the pitcher. Thus, I believe, the effect and intent is identical.
Certainly, in this area, I believe that it is Little League's intent to
play the same way as FED and ASA.

You are correct in the second half of your statement - Little League's
interpretation and application of the rule is different in this area.
LL's rule binds each runner independently, and does not "wait" until
the
BR reaches first base for other runners. If the catcher returns the
ball to the pitcher before the BR reaches first, R3 becomes subject to
the rule at that point. The BR is allowed somewhat more margin - the
basic "theory," as it has been explained to me, is that the BR is to be
given enough time to look for the ball in the circle *after* having
crossed or passed the bag, and then to make up her mind to advance or
retreat. The "ten feet" in the Fair Ball ruling is, in typical play,
only maybe 3-4 steps, maybe two seconds, which is within a reasonable
interval for a player to react. Granted, in actual play the BR will
frequently already know that the pitcher has the ball before reaching
first, however she's still given that opportunity to advance slightly
past the bag and then reverse.

My basic "style" of applying this rule is a "two second count." When I
see that the pitcher has the ball, "thousand one, thousand two" and
then
I don't want to see a reversal of a runner thereafter. Similarly, I
want the BR committed in about the same interval after crossing first.

To be perfectly frank, I haven't had to call a "reversal" in years, and
can only remember one game in the past 3-4 years where my partner
called
it. (And on that one, it was the base coach's fault - he changed his
mind about 19 times on one play, and confused the poor girl to death.)
Leaving too soon I've called more often - almost always a 12-year-old
who also plays in another "flavor" of softball, and leaves as the
pitcher releases instead of waiting for the ball to reach the batter...

Kevin Hunter
Umpire Consultant
Florida District 9
Fort Myers, FL

Paul

[CecilOne]

But then, R3 would be forced to advance ("before the BR reaches first, R3 becomes subject to the rule at that point").