10U ASA Question

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Why do you feel a runner can "unscore" once they've crossed the plate (assuming they have no further true need to be back on the basepaths, such as a missed base or one left too early), and also - why do you feel a 10U runner who was told by her coach to return to third after crossing the plate would be in jeopardy of being tagged, when the same runner when told by an umpire to return would not be? Seems that the person (coach vs umpir) directing her to properly return (as she must) is a rather flimsy reason to differentiate her liability status by.

I'm sorry you cannot see the relation between the interp on a runner placing themself in jeopardy by returning past first and a runner returning to 3B. I see it as quite clear.

As I said, I do not agree with it, but it's not up to me to accept or ignore rulings.

Let me ask you this. If the runner did turn and head back to 3B after scoring during a live ball and drew a throw while there are other active runners, would you rule interference in accordance with 8.7.P and call the runner closest to home, out?

[fastpitch]

I would not just as I would not if B/R runs to 1B on a dropped 3rd strike with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied and draws a throw. Our local association takes the position she is no longer in jeopardy once she has crossed home plate in 10U. Perhaps I should start a new thread, BR runs to 1B in sit. above and is inside the baseline halfway up the line and C is tring to pick girl off at 1B and hits her in the back - who is out?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

I would not just as I would not if B/R runs to 1B on a dropped 3rd strike with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied and draws a throw. Our local association takes the position she is no longer in jeopardy once she has crossed home plate in 10U. Perhaps I should start a new thread, BR runs to 1B in sit. above and is inside the baseline halfway up the line and C is tring to pick girl off at 1B and hits her in the back - who is out?

The rule I cited explicitly exempts the retired runner on a U3K, but also states that a runner who has scored cannot continue to run and draw a throw.

You cannot have it both ways.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

I would not just as I would not if B/R runs to 1B on a dropped 3rd strike with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied and draws a throw. Our local association takes the position she is no longer in jeopardy once she has crossed home plate in 10U. Perhaps I should start a new thread, BR runs to 1B in sit. above and is inside the baseline halfway up the line and C is tring to pick girl off at 1B and hits her in the back - who is out?

Why start a new thread? There are only three issues in this one.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

I would not just as I would not if B/R runs to 1B on a dropped 3rd strike with less than 2 outs and 1B occupied and draws a throw. Our local association takes the position she is no longer in jeopardy once she has crossed home plate in 10U. Perhaps I should start a new thread, BR runs to 1B in sit. above and is inside the baseline halfway up the line and C is tring to pick girl off at 1B and hits her in the back - who is out?

Different sitch - runner in question is a runner who has scored - which is who this particular rule is talking about. Retired runner and Scored runner are two different things.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Let me ask you this. If the runner did turn and head back to 3B after scoring during a live ball and drew a throw while there are other active runners, would you rule interference in accordance with 8.7.P and call the runner closest to home, out?

Yes, of course I would. I believe this (and other related situations) is exactly what 8.7.p is for. Am I wrong there too?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Let me ask you this. If the runner did turn and head back to 3B after scoring during a live ball and drew a throw while there are other active runners, would you rule interference in accordance with 8.7.P and call the runner closest to home, out?

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Yes, of course I would. I believe this (and other related situations) is exactly what 8.7.p is for. Am I wrong there too?

So, 10U baserunning rules say that the runner is not eligible to score, but she runs home anyway on a wild pitch that is ball four. Coach screams at her to return to 3B. She does, but in her attempt to return, she draws a throw, but makes it safely back to 3B. Meanwhile, as this is going on, BR advances to 2B.

You're going to call R1 out for interference?

[mcrowder]

Yes. (stupid 10 character limit....)

[fastpitch]

In this case, I wouldn't. There is nothing gained by the offense. She cannot advance to 2B on a walk. I would just put the runners back after play has stopped. The defense can still attempt to get the runner out if she tries to return to 1B.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

...There is nothing gained by the offense...

Theoretically, the return to 3rd drew a throw that could have been used to retire the runner off base between 1st and 2nd.

OTOH, if R1 is in jeopardy, the whole interference issue is avoided.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Yes. (stupid 10 character limit....)

Prepare to eject a coach.

[IRISHMAFIA]

My point here is that if you insist the runner has scored and cannot "unscore", then how can you not call the runner out for drawing a throw when the rules specifically prohibit it?

You cannot have it both ways, either the runner scored or is still active.

Also, the rules permit for a runner to return to 3B after scoring if s/he believes THEY missed the base or left the base too soon regardless of age level. The rules even specify that this runner must retouch the plate prior to doing so or be subject to an appeal for missing the plate while returning.

I'm sure you believe this isn't the same situation, but I believe it is. Just because the runner is considered to have scored the moment s/he crosses the plate, touched or not, does not mean s/he cannot place themselves back into jeopardy basically because the rules do not differentiate home plate from all the other bases.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You cannot have it both ways, either the runner scored or is still active.

I don't think either mcrowder or I am trying to have it both ways. I consider the runner still active (hence, no interference). He considers her as having scored (hence, interference).

My reasoning is the runner is not eligible to score, so she has not scored.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

My reasoning is the runner is not eligible to score, so she has not scored.

So, if the runner cannot score, by rule, and not in contact with a base, that runner is still in jeopardy whether she crossed the plate or not.

Is that what you are saying?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, if the runner cannot score, by rule, and not in contact with a base, that runner is still in jeopardy whether she crossed the plate or not.

Is that what you are saying?

No, because neither is she "between bases." She is not in jeopardy unless she attempts to return to 3rd. Bizzare, I know. But it is how I read the 10U rules mapped into the general baserunning rules. My rationale is that runners do not stay in contact with the plate.