Screwed up BOO - Do you intervene?

[CelticNHBlue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

How is "filling in" the appeal to cover all appealable BOO violations different from ruling on all missed bases on a play when one is appealed?

How would you respond to a coach who came to you in a situation immediately following the play (before the next pitch) and said to you, "Blue, #17 just batted, but I have #19 on my lineup?"

This coach has not appealed anything to you. You will review the lineup, and may discover BOO, unreported sub, or an inaccurate lineup card. Would you acknowledge the coach with, "That is correct coach" and await a specific appeal, or would you determine the violation and assess the appropriate penalty? If the latter, wouldn't that be considered "filling in" (as you put it) the appeal to cover all appealable violations?

I agree with Mike in the sense that this coach has recognized something is wrong with the order in which players have/are batting and, just because s/he did not ask the specific question regarding the exact player, they have made the determination that something is wrong, and I would correct it, at that time.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

How would you respond to a coach who came to you in a situation immediately following the play (before the next pitch) and said to you, "Blue, #17 just batted, but I have #19 on my lineup?"

This coach has not appealed anything to you. You will review the lineup, and may discover BOO, unreported sub, or an inaccurate lineup card. Would you acknowledge the coach with, "That is correct coach" and await a specific appeal, or would you determine the violation and assess the appropriate penalty? If the latter, wouldn't that be considered "filling in" (as you put it) the appeal to cover all appealable violations?

I agree with Mike in the sense that this coach has recognized something is wrong with the order in which players have/are batting and, just because s/he did not ask the specific question regarding the exact player, they have made the determination that something is wrong, and I would correct it, at that time.

Again, that is a "use the proper words" example rather than "appeal the proper thing" example. Add the following to your example.

Batting order is
#19
#21
#17
#22

#17 has just batted instead of #19. #21 has come up to bat and has taken one pitch. Coach does exactly what you said.

Coach has recognized that #17 batted in the wrong spot. Coach has not recognized that #17 is now legal and so #21 is also batting in the wrong spot.

You explain that since a pitch has been thrown, #17's at bat is legal.

Does coach then understand that #22 should now be due up and not #21? Am I supposed to explain that to him? Am I supposed to just correct it without an appeal?

Do we allow a generic "the batting order is screwed up - please fix it, Blue" as an appeal?

I guess so, but I never knew that.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CelticNHBlue

How would you respond to a coach who came to you in a situation immediately following the play (before the next pitch) and said to you, "Blue, #17 just batted, but I have #19 on my lineup?"

This coach has not appealed anything to you. You will review the lineup, and may discover BOO, unreported sub, or an inaccurate lineup card. Would you acknowledge the coach with, "That is correct coach" and await a specific appeal, or would you determine the violation and assess the appropriate penalty? If the latter, wouldn't that be considered "filling in" (as you put it) the appeal to cover all appealable violations?

I think it's obvious in this case that he's appealing the fact that 17 just batted and 19 should have. We don't have to wait until he actually says the word "appeal". My sitch was different. I had 2 distinct (linked, obviously, in some way... but distinct) infractions. First was #9 batting instead of #6. Then #6 batted instead of #1. ALL of the coach's complaints/concerns were along these lines, "#9 should be out," "That home run doesn't count," etc ... and ALL of the complaints/concerns happened after #6 had taken a pitch. He even asked me what he should have done to get an out on number 9, at which point I explained (more than he asked... but what I thought he meant) that if he'd appealed on #9 BEFORE the pitch to #6, #6 would have been out and the homerun erased, with #9 coming back to the plate to bat after #6.

I truly felt (and still feel) that reminding him that #1 was supposed to be up instead of #6 was outside the realm of what he was complaining about. In fact, after explaining what I said above, I FULLY expected that he would come back out after #6 batted to get an out on #1 for not batting - but he didn't.

I agree with Mike in the sense that this coach has recognized something is wrong with the order in which players have/are batting and, just because s/he did not ask the specific question regarding the exact player, they have made the determination that something is wrong, and I would correct it, at that time.

I disagree - for two reasons. One - he was not concerned at all with #6 being at the plate - he was concerned with #9. Two - I feel that "fixing it" by bringing #1 to the plate deprived HIM from an opportunity for an out if defense refused to fix it on their own. And it isn't my job to protect the defense from a future infraction.

[JEL]

Two runners pass third on the way to the plate. One runner misses the touch, the other doesn't. On the defensive appeal, don't we make them tell us which runner missed?

7-2-D starts by stating "IF BATTING OUT OF ORDER IS DISCOVERED", but doesn't say discovered by whom. We would also tell a scorekeeper that BOO must be reported and appealed by the coach were they to point it out, so who must do the discovery?

I can see this arguement both ways, but tend to lean towards I'm keeping quiet. That is also what my wife said I would have done anyway. She'a probably right.

[DaveASA/FED]

How about this. Coach brings up batting out of order, 9 batted instead of 6. I would bring out my lineup card and with my pencil as a pointer I would say "Ok we had 10 on first, 9 came to bat and hit the homer, we threw a pitch to 6 which makes 9's at bat legal, so we should be here in the lineup (pointing to #1 in the lineup). That is all I would do, is that helping the defense, maybe...but that is how I would do it to me that is just thinking through the situation that the coach has brought to my attention. I would not but 1 in the box, without more from the coach....as someone said that would be taking a chance for an out away from the defense. Now that is the point where the coach has to know what to do next, let 6 complete their turn at bat and then appeal to get 1 out for BOO, hopefully 6 will K or ground out and we get 2 outs!!