Was it a strike?

[Igotthetag]

CLB...why do you say both knees? I have it as a strike if it clears one knee when passing over the plate...what happens after that, with the caveat that it must also clear the plate, is incidental. It's in the zone. Just a question.

Duane

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

CLB...why do you say both knees? I have it as a strike if it clears one knee when passing over the plate...what happens after that, with the caveat that it must also clear the plate, is incidental. It's in the zone. Just a question.

Duane

I don't say both knees. ASA and NFHS say both knees in their definitions of the strike zone. Perhaps you are thinking of the slow pitch strike zone where it only has to pass over the front knee but then if it hits the plate it is a dead ball and a ball.

[Igotthetag]

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

Where do you see "the front edge of the plate" in a definition or rule?

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

If you are a fast pitch umpire then good luck selling this.

If you are a fast pitch pitcher or catcher then good luck getting it called.

[Smiley]

Technically, it doesn't have to break the front plane, but usually, it does. The requirement is that any part of the ball passes through the zone, which is defined as the space over the plate and between the forward armpit and the knees. This is a cubical space, which a part of the ball must pass through. It could theoretically enter from any of 5 sides (not the back plane), and exit through any of the other sides. It does not need to stay above both knees.

[justmom]

Originally Posted by Smiley

Technically, it doesn't have to break the front plane, but usually, it does. The requirement is that any part of the ball passes through the zone, which is defined as the space over the plate and between the forward armpit and the knees. This is a cubical space, which a part of the ball must pass through. It could theoretically enter from any of 5 sides (not the back plane), and exit through any of the other sides. It does not need to stay above both knees.

I wish someone could post a diagram of this as viewed from the side. I can almost visualize a ball hitting the back edge of the plate that may have passed through the front of the strike zone. But, it seems like the pitched ball would have a ridiculously high arc, or be a really good drop ball....any mathematicians on this board?

[LIIRISHMAN]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

Reading your reply you legally could be calling strikes at the players ankles. You'd also be leading the league in ejections

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

Reading your reply you legally could be calling strikes at the players ankles. You'd also be leading the league in ejections

LIIR - if the ball is coming in at a significant arc or has drop on it, and the batters are in the very back of the box, heck yeah you could legally be calling strikes at the players' ankles. It's not my job to move them up. If it takes ejections to get a coach who bothers to move the batters up, fine.

Are you saying you would not? Do you move your strikezone based on how far up or back the batter stands, or do you just screw the drop-ball pitcher? Which rule are you willfully ignoring here? Just curious.

[LIIRISHMAN]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

LIIR - if the ball is coming in at a significant arc or has drop on it, and the batters are in the very back of the box, heck yeah you could legally be calling strikes at the players' ankles. It's not my job to move them up. If it takes ejections to get a coach who bothers to move the batters up, fine.

Are you saying you would not? Do you move your strikezone based on how far up or back the batter stands, or do you just screw the drop-ball pitcher? Which rule are you willfully ignoring here? Just curious.

My answer was based on FP scenario. Again I would say calling a strike below the knee is wrong and not fair to the player. Also at no time should a strike be called when it hits the plate.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

My answer was based on FP scenario. Again I would say calling a strike below the knee is wrong and not fair to the player. Also at no time should a strike be called when it hits the plate.

The strike zone is over the plate, no matter where the batter stands. The armpits and knees define the height over the plate, and that is the strike zone. If the batter is in the back of the box and the pitch crosses the plate at an altitude higher than the batter's knees, it's a strike no matter how far it drops before it passes the batter. If the batter is in the front of the box and the pitch crosses the plate at an altitude lower than the batter's armpit, it's a strike no matter what part of the batter's body it passes in front of the plate or how far it drops before the plate. Not saying this is always easy to judge, but that is the rule and that is what we must try to call.

BTW, there were some comments a while back about not calling strikes "at the letters". I've checked every uniform for about 10 days and the letters are all below the armpits.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN

My answer was based on FP scenario. Again I would say calling a strike below the knee is wrong and not fair to the player. Also at no time should a strike be called when it hits the plate.

Maybe (giving you the benefit of the doubt) you are missing the variable of where the batter is standing.

The strike zone remains next to the plate. The batter's ankles remain with the batter.

[Al]

Originally Posted by CLBuffalo

I don't say both knees. ASA and NFHS say both knees in their definitions of the strike zone. Perhaps you are thinking of the slow pitch strike zone where it only has to pass over the front knee but then if it hits the plate it is a dead ball and a ball.

CLBuffalo,

Speaking of slow pitch... (must have 6 to 10 foot arch) Here in our town we have men's slow pitch tournament games on weekends where the umpires call strikes only if the ball touches the plate or the plate extention. The umpires don't even stand directly behind the catcher, but off to the side to see if the ball bounces off the plate or extention for the strike. It seems this strike zone must not be too common from what I observed from some of the complaints coming from the dugouts... "Hey blue the ball hit the #&^@#% plate! I spoke with one of the umpires and asked if he had a pre-game talk with the coaches about this strike zone and he said yes he did. I guess the coaches didn't make it clear to some on their players. They have another rule that also makes the job of umpiring easier. Each team is allowed only 1 over the fence home run, (300 feet). If a second home run comes the inning is over, even if they had no outs, plus the other team gets 2 runs. If a 3rd home run comes the inning is over , and the other team gets 3 runs...etc. etc. Sure changes the swing of the power hitters! It probably shortens the game too. ...Fun at the ole' ball park! ...Al

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Al

CLBuffalo,

Speaking of slow pitch... (must have 6 to 10 foot arch) Here in our town we have men's slow pitch tournament games on weekends where the umpires call strikes only if the ball touches the plate or the plate extention. The umpires don't even stand directly behind the catcher, but off to the side to see if the ball bounces off the plate or extention for the strike. It seems this strike zone must not be too common from what I observed from some of the complaints coming from the dugouts... "Hey blue the ball hit the #&^@#% plate! I spoke with one of the umpires and asked if he had a pre-game talk with the coaches about this strike zone and he said yes he did. I guess the coaches didn't make it clear to some on their players. They have another rule that also makes the job of umpiring easier. Each team is allowed only 1 over the fence home run, (300 feet). If a second home run comes the inning is over, even if they had no outs, plus the other team gets 2 runs. If a 3rd home run comes the inning is over , and the other team gets 3 runs...etc. etc. Sure changes the swing of the power hitters! It probably shortens the game too. ...Fun at the ole' ball park! ...Al

Now that is an interesting strike zone and I've never seen or heard it before. I do see that it would be very easy to call. How long has this been in effect? As for the home runs, I've done slow pitch tournaments (NSA) where that was the same penalty for too many home runs.

[Al]

Don't know what happened to my reply Chester...but I'll try again.

I don't know how long this has been the strike zone, but when I think about it I don't recall hearing anyone complain about it except a few from the dugouts. No fan or actual batter at the plate complained. And the batters were not having to swing at low pitches. Very few walks and plenty of hard hit liners.

I asked the one umpire what one thing he learned over the years that he credits for improving his work the most. He said "if you work with a partner make sure you have good communications. Think ahead and remind each other of certain situations such as in field fly etc"... I have to hurry along....Later, ..Al

I think I may start a thread and ask the guys and ladies on this board what helped their game the most as well. ...